Internally logical magic systems?

[Umbran]

Why does gravity exist? Where does it come from?

Well, you can ask whys until eventually you reach a question we have no answer for. However, Why does gravity exist? It is a consequence of two apparent facts about the Universe:

1) After acceleration is taken into account, the laws of physics are the same in all frames of reference
2) Gravitational mass is the same as inertial mass.

Given those two assumptions, the curving of spacetime we call gravity is a natural consequence - there is no other way the Universe could exist, but still be self-consistent. This was shown by Einstein, and has been supported by much experiment since.

Why are those two things true? We don't know that.

Is there an infinite amount?

Gravity is not a substance, so "amount" is not a suitable word.

 

[Guest 6801328]

So reading between the lines a bit here, it almost looks like you're seeking to severely whack the length of any one PC caster's spell list, while maybe making each PC's list a) unique and b) tied to a theme?

If yes, I can appreciate the sentiment. Puts you in for a lot of work, though.

That's not necessarily the goal, or the motivation. But probably a side effect.

The goal is just for magic to to be something other than hand-wavy "because magic".

 

[aramis erak]

In the AEG system for Legend of the Five Rings, most magic was the acts on the elemental kami (spirits) that a shugenja (wizard/priest) would have to cajole into performing a service (the spell). It was a fairly integral concept to the setting, which made it feel fairly unique. There were other magic systems in the world, but those were evil magic of outsiders (most of which were left unexplained).

The evil magics of L5R (at least from 2nd on) are working in exactly the same way... it's just that they target the subset of kami known as kansen. The Naga are connected to another supernatural source.

 

[tommybahama]

Since magic as a a force is manipulatable and exploitable, it is less like gravity and more like electricity. How does one generate it? We have answers.

We were harnessing electricity long before we knew what it was. Ancient Greeks discovered static electricity. Romans had crude batteries. The electron wasn't discovered until the 19th Century.

 

[Nagol]

We were harnessing electricity long before we knew what it was. Ancient Greeks discovered static electricity. Romans had crude batteries. The electron wasn't discovered until the 19th Century.

Yes, and?

"How do we generate electricity?"
"I find rubbing a glass rod with cat's fur generates a shocking charge. Hm, I prefer the rod of copper and rod of iron submerged in vinegar for long term generation."

"Once we use it, does it replenish?"
"Both of the techniques eventually wear out their components. That said, the generation appears to be consistent regardless of number of times it occurs in a volume. It appears the electricity does replenish."

"Can we measure its intensity?" Yes like this...

 

[tommybahama]

Gravity is not a substance, so "amount" is not a suitable word.

I remember hearing a physicist on NPR saying that some people theorize that gravity was leaking into our universe from another dimension. I Googled it before writing this and found one link saying that some think the universal expansion is accelerating because gravity is leaking out of our universe into another dimension. The very next link said there is no evidence for other dimensions. So who knows?

And are Einstein's discoveries law or theory at this point?

I'm just gonna stick to Vancian magic until it's disproven by artificers in Faerun.

 

[Nagol]

<snip>

And are Einstein's discoveries law or theory at this point?

I'm just gonna stick to Vancian magic until it's disproven by artificers in Faerun.

A law is an articulated observation that describes how things work in practice.
A theory is a model of how things work.

One tends to start with a law and develops a model that complies with it.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Being something of a geek, on a planet of scientific and mathematical illiterates, I often find myself gently (I hope) correcting other people. And, yes, I get some amount of self-satisfaction from it. It's probably more annoying than I realize.

But on an RPG site it's safe to assume that many of us, maybe even most of us, know something about math and science. So slipping into our default pedantic mode probably isn't going to work out like it does in the real world.

 

[Umbran]

I remember hearing a physicist on NPR saying that some people theorize that gravity was leaking into our universe from another dimension. I Googled it before writing this and found one link saying that some think the universal expansion is accelerating because gravity is leaking out of our universe into another dimension.

Modern science reportage has failed you, I'm afraid. Back in like 2005, George Dvali and others suggested "leaking into other dimensions*" as a possible reason for a weakening of gravity over very large distances, that could explain expansion.

Experiment since then stands against this notion. LIGO (the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory) allows us to measure gravitational waves, so we can see if there's a loss over distance. There does not seem to be.

The very next link said there is no evidence for other dimensions. So who knows?

Folks have looked for various bits of evidence suggesting extra dimensions, and so far no evidence for them has been found.

And are Einstein's discoveries law or theory at this point?

Oh, goodness, how the education system has failed us.

In colloquial use, "theory" indicates a proposition that is highly questionable, not well tested.

In the world of hard sciences, "theory" does not have that connotation. Einstein's theories of Special and General Relativity are extremely well tested, and have passed every test so far put to them. "Law" is not a technical term in science - there is no well-defined place where we say, "this is physical law". "Law," instead, is descriptive. A physical law is a proposition that has held up to a lot of testing.





*This does not mean what a D&D player, science fiction author, or comic book reader would think it means.

 

[GMMichael]

Ha, gravity kills. And it's attacking this thread right now...

That's not necessarily the goal, or the motivation. But probably a side effect.

The goal is just for magic to to be something other than hand-wavy "because magic".

What about OLD (WOIN)? The rules-explanation of magic seems to spill into the setting-explanation a bit. The "reason" that you can cast a spell is because you know the Secret of your spell/target and you have the skill, and magic points, to back it up.