And, at the end of the day, it starts feeling like a bunch of people who have never sat at my table telling me that I'm doing it all wrong. That I'm playing a broken game that is far too easy to even be worth attempting to play. And after a month of discussion, a month of trying to show that, really, the game is just fine, it is challenging and has many interesting mechanics, and if it lacks a mechanic you feel it should have, even if I think that mechanic does not actually make the game more challenging, just racks up a higher body count... I'm just getting fed up with it.
Fair enough.I think this is what is getting to me about this thread.
It was started with the premise that 5e lacks the capability to challenge players. That it lacks all of these rules and features that make the game truly challenging.
And, when putting forth the idea that you can just homebrew those rules in, I was told that you can't. That so many minor details and rules interactions would be needed that it is impossible to do. The game is simply broken and too easy.
And when I put forth the idea that, actually, I do challenge my players. Consistently. I get push back telling me that I can't actually be challenging them, that it is an illusion, that I have tricked my players into thinking they are being challenged when in actuality they aren't. Because if they were truly being challenged, we would be playing this way, and the game wouldn't allow this rule, and things would work like this.
And, at the end of the day, it starts feeling like a bunch of people who have never sat at my table telling me that I'm doing it all wrong. That I'm playing a broken game that is far too easy to even be worth attempting to play. And after a month of discussion, a month of trying to show that, really, the game is just fine, it is challenging and has many interesting mechanics, and if it lacks a mechanic you feel it should have, even if I think that mechanic does not actually make the game more challenging, just racks up a higher body count... I'm just getting fed up with it.
I don't need more than I have to challenge my players. They are challenged by the game as is. I do homebrew, I add things that I think are interesting and sometimes more challenging. I create unique monsters and unique effects. I don't do it because I feel like I need them to challenge the players. I do it because those are the monsters and effects that fit the story.
Is 5e easier than (insert edition)? Maybe. I haven't played Chainmail, maybe it is incredibly challenging, harder than anything I've ever played in my life and DnD 5e would pale before it. I don't care. Maybe if monsters had X ability with Y recovery then my players would be even more challenged. I don't care, they are challenged enough.
In a month of posting nearly daily, not a single post has convinced me that this edition of the game lacks challenge. A few of the posts seemed to not even remember what the actual effects or rules were to begin with. But if it takes this long, and we still haven't proven the point of the OP... that alone might be pretty good evidence that they were wrong.
It was started with the premise that 5e lacks the capability to challenge players. That it lacks all of these rules and features that make the game truly challenging.
And, when putting forth the idea that you can just homebrew those rules in, I was told that you can't.
That is polony.That so many minor details and rules interactions would be needed that it is impossible to do.
And when I put forth the idea that, actually, I do challenge my players. Consistently. I get push back telling me that I can't actually be challenging them, that it is an illusion, that I have tricked my players into thinking they are being challenged when in actuality they aren't. Because if they were truly being challenged, we would be playing this way, and the game wouldn't allow this rule, and things would work like this.
In a month of posting nearly daily, not a single post has convinced me that this edition of the game lacks challenge.
I think the biggest issue I have with this thread is the suggestion that DMs just attack downed characters.
This doesn't sit right with me. Sure it makes the game more lethal but there's an element of antagonism here.
I guess one way to address this would be to give monsters a 'ferocity rating' - (name not really important). This is basically like a save to see what the monster does if standing over a falling pc.
So basically a number between 1 and 20. A bullette might be say 3. Any roll over 3 and it will start trying to devour the downed pc.
A goblin might be 16. It's more worried about survival and therefore cares more about the other immediate threat right in front of it.
This introduces an element of objectivty, which feels more appropriate to me. (And it takes the GM deciding to kill the character out of the equation).
That is polony.
I can more easily provide a challenging experience with B/X, because the inherent nature of the rules are more closely aligned to the level of challenge I expect.
You might be thinking of the rule that attacks made from an unseen position get advantage. Very often, both situations would apply. (ETA: I see someone mentioned that already.)Wait, does 5E not have it that an attack made on a character during a surprise round has advantage, so long as that character isn't acting in the surprise round?