D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

That seems to be by design, though. Rulings over rules. They seem to be deliberately being vague in some places, leaving holes in others, and sometimes both, in order to allow DMs to make rulings that fit their game.

Well here is the problem in order for flanking to be a valuable rule you also really really need with it ways to make getting the position difficult. like making opportunity attacks easier for instance and that is only one possibility. Maybe you might need ways of overcoming opportunity attacks to be more difficult its kind of cascade to make position more important and abilities that interact with that. The real goal is position == more important and actions that induce or inhibit movement become more potent thereby so they need a counterpoint or a cost. It's about making choices not be too easy, so its an accomplishment. (no 4e didnt always accomplish it massively either but 5e dropped it altogether) and the super simple just do it angle is kind of meh.

Other things that might interact with making position more important if more martial types get berserk bursts or great cleave style attacks affecting all creatures or all enemies adjacent then those adversaries are less incentivized to gang up on them (makes flanking a harder choice). This too makes position more sensitive. In a different almost opposed way than flanking its a bit of a counterpoint.

 

[Teemu]

None of the editions are samey to me when compared to other editions.

The following 4e classes don't have the class structure of the PHB1 and PHB2 classes:

Bladesinger, Ardent, Executioner, Battlemind, Warpriest, Protector, Knight, Sentinel, Slayer, Blackguard, Cavalier, Psion, Hunter, Scout, Thief, Elementalist, Vampire, Binder, Hexblade, and Mage.

That's 20 classes. You said that these exceptions don't matter. 20 is a big number though.

 

[Maxperson]

The following 4e classes don't have the class structure of the PHB1 and PHB2 classes:

Bladesinger, Ardent, Executioner, Battlemind, Warpriest, Protector, Knight, Sentinel, Slayer, Blackguard, Cavalier, Psion, Hunter, Scout, Thief, Elementalist, Vampire, Binder, Hexblade, and Mage.

That's 20 classes. You said that these exceptions don't matter. 20 is a big number though.

Dude. If you have to go past not only the PHB1, but PHB2 to find the exceptions, you're pretty much showing the course corrections WotC was making in order to fix the issues many people were having.

Speaking for myself, I haven't been talking about anything but the core books in any edition. 1e-5e.

 

[Garthanos]

None of that matters, though. You don't get to decide what their criteria should be or which facts matter and which don't.

You tried to decide for me... when I said they were samey and had all the same at-will attacks and they are all about the damage the damage the damage. But I was wrong. huh.

 

[Teemu]

Dude. If you have to go past not only the PHB1, but PHB2 to find the exceptions, you're pretty much showing the course corrections WotC was making in order to fix the issues many people were having.

Speaking for myself, I haven't been talking about anything but the core books in any edition. 1e-5e.

20 classes is nearly half of all 4e classes. And those classes were published a decade ago. When I’m talking about the full extent of 4e’s powers, rituals, feats, items, and classes, I’m talking about the complete edition.

 

[Maxperson]

You tried to decide for me... when I said they were samey and had all the same at-will attacks and they are all about the damage the damage the damage. But I was wrong. huh.

No. Not once have I been talking about anyone but me when it comes to samey, but nice try.

 

[Maxperson]

20 classes is nearly half of all 4e classes. And those classes were published a decade ago. When I’m talking about the full extent of 4e’s powers, rituals, feats, items, and classes, I’m talking about the complete edition.

So after the course corrections to try and save the edition.

 

[Teemu]

So after the course corrections to try and save the edition.

You took umbrage at my post where I said that the impression of 4e being samey is based on presentation and the lack of knowledge about the full extent of what 4e can offer. Now you’re saying that you’re only including PHB1 in your take—isn’t this just more evidence backing my claim? You don’t know the full extent of 4e, since you’re only including one book (and MM1 and DMG1?).

 

[Garthanos]

No. Not once have I been talking about anyone but me when it comes to samey, but nice try.

Your response to my claim was to point out the wider field class differences and to me that is a NO you are wrong because X Y Z. I even accept that admonishment as valid but you cannot accept the admonishment of samey being only looking narrowly at the powers. ... its ok for you to call someone out on it but not the other side.

 

[Maxperson]

Your response to my claim was to point out the wider field class differences and to me that is a NO you are wrong because X Y Z. I even accept that admonishment as valid but you cannot accept the admonishment of samey being only looking narrowly at the powers. ... its ok for you to call someone out on it but not the other side.

That's not how discussion works. If I disagree with you, it's not automatically a "No, you're wrong." If I don't say you're wrong, I'm not saying you're wrong. Don't put words in my mouth.