The One Ring/Adventures in Middle-earth License Goes to Free League

Stefano Rinaldelli · Mar 14, 2020

Arilyn said:
The age of elves giving way to the age of man. And yes, I agree. What kind of earth would man inherit was determined in the War of the Ring.

Maybe elves were already going away from ME, but this is not in contradiction with the "loss in victory" fact.

dchart · Mar 15, 2020

Beleriphon said:
They kind of do, you can't march to Mordor and punch Sauron in the face. The rules are very clear there are somethings the characters can't defeat. They might be able to hold back the darkness, but it isn't their place to put an end to it.

On the other hand, page 96 of Horse Lords of Rohan has a third-page box discussing the possibility that the player characters could prevent the corruption of Saruman. I don't know about you, but I would find that a completely satisfying positive story arc for a Middle Earth campaign. In some ways, more so than a simple "you do Frodo's job" campaign, because there would be much more freedom in how things played out.

Tales and Chronicles · Mar 16, 2020

A wonderful company full of professionalism gets the rights to one of my favorite game line? Yeahhhh!
The only question I have is: ''where's my Moria box set?!''

I wish they would ask Jon Hodgson to do some of the art in the new books, even if he's otherwise occupied with its new company.

Guest 6801328 · Mar 17, 2020

Nothing in the design of TOR prevents the PCs from becoming the heroes who save the world. E.g., like Sam (with some notable help from Frodo.).

But it does pretty much prevent them from becoming super-powered heroes like Gandalf/Glorfindel, or even like Aragorn/Boromir.

In other words, it has constrained mechanics, not constrained storyline.

Although I suppose you could, if you interpreted both the fiction and the rules in a very particular way, force those two graphs to cross. Along the lines of the famous "Gandalf was a 5th Level Magic-User" essay.

Not the interpretation I prefer.

aramis erak · Mar 19, 2020

Elfcrusher said:
Although I suppose you could, if you interpreted both the fiction and the rules in a very particular way, force those two graphs to cross. Along the lines of the famous "Gandalf was a 5th Level Magic-User" essay.

Not the interpretation I prefer.

TOR's mechanics make even the most powerful magic users of the non-(high-elves & istari) not even as powerful as a level 1 wizard. The magic is subtle and all pervasive... but Gandalf really is comparable to a 5th level AD&D wizard with Int 20. (I suspect his dump stat, however, was Wisdom.) The special effects rule of high elves is pretty subtle, too...

His "fireball" doesn't even kill the goblins in The Hobbit; it stuns and pains them, but doesn't kill them. Most of his magic is easily subsumed with cantrips in AD&D 1e+GHA, 3e, 4e, or 5e... but that stunning burst feels more like a fireball converted from damage to (level)d6 individuals stunned for 1d6 rounds.

The D&D magic is much more flashy than any of Tolkien's but the Istari, and even then, the Istari we see (Radagast and Gandalf) seem to be pretty weak by D&D terms. The only thing Gandalf routinely does with his magic is cast light on his staff, and igniting his pipe.

Stefano Rinaldelli · Mar 19, 2020

aramis erak said:
TOR's mechanics make even the most powerful magic users of the non-(high-elves & istari) not even as powerful as a level 1 wizard. The magic is subtle and all pervasive... but Gandalf really is comparable to a 5th level AD&D wizard with Int 20. (I suspect his dump stat, however, was Wisdom.) The special effects rule of high elves is pretty subtle, too...

His "fireball" doesn't even kill the goblins in The Hobbit; it stuns and pains them, but doesn't kill them. Most of his magic is easily subsumed with cantrips in AD&D 1e+GHA, 3e, 4e, or 5e... but that stunning burst feels more like a fireball converted from damage to (level)d6 individuals stunned for 1d6 rounds.

The D&D magic is much more flashy than any of Tolkien's but the Istari, and even then, the Istari we see (Radagast and Gandalf) seem to be pretty weak by D&D terms. The only thing Gandalf routinely does with his magic is cast light on his staff, and igniting his pipe.

It depends on what kind of "magic" you are talking about. Yes Gandalf has no fireballs but can fight with his sword against a Balrog and even impose to him to not pass. He can evoke and direct a lightining and evoke the king of eagles ti rescue him. It's magic is in his force of will and in the manipulation of nature.

Reynard · Mar 19, 2020

aramis erak said:
TOR's mechanics make even the most powerful magic users of the non-(high-elves & istari) not even as powerful as a level 1 wizard. The magic is subtle and all pervasive... but Gandalf really is comparable to a 5th level AD&D wizard with Int 20. (I suspect his dump stat, however, was Wisdom.) The special effects rule of high elves is pretty subtle, too...

His "fireball" doesn't even kill the goblins in The Hobbit; it stuns and pains them, but doesn't kill them. Most of his magic is easily subsumed with cantrips in AD&D 1e+GHA, 3e, 4e, or 5e... but that stunning burst feels more like a fireball converted from damage to (level)d6 individuals stunned for 1d6 rounds.

The D&D magic is much more flashy than any of Tolkien's but the Istari, and even then, the Istari we see (Radagast and Gandalf) seem to be pretty weak by D&D terms. The only thing Gandalf routinely does with his magic is cast light on his staff, and igniting his pipe.

This kind of thing only makes sense if you assume that the whole world looks like D&D, which it clearly doesn't. Magic is pervasive in Middle Earth. People, even hobbits from the Shire, have heard of sorcerers and monstrous wolves and magical toys made by dwarves. It's just not D&D magic. So the Istari are certainly not "low level magic users" by any measure that makes sense in Middle Earth. Gandalf knows EVERY spell ever made by elf, dwarf, man or orc. That statement alone tells you a lot about the prevalence of magic in Middle Earth as well as Gandalf's power and knowledge. And he certainly does far more than light his pipe.

I suggest folks reread the books rather than relying on half remembered knowledge from the movies or when they had to write a book report in 8th grade.

Guest 6801328 · Mar 19, 2020

Reynard said:
This kind of thing only makes sense if you assume that the whole world looks like D&D, which it clearly doesn't. Magic is pervasive in Middle Earth. People, even hobbits from the Shire, have heard of sorcerers and monstrous wolves and magical toys made by dwarves. It's just not D&D magic. So the Istari are certainly not "low level magic users" by any measure that makes sense in Middle Earth. Gandalf knows EVERY spell ever made by elf, dwarf, man or orc. That statement alone tells you a lot about the prevalence of magic in Middle Earth as well as Gandalf's power and knowledge. And he certainly does far more than light his pipe.

I clicked "Like" for this.

I suggest folks reread the books rather than relying on half remembered knowledge from the movies or when they had to write a book report in 8th grade.

Then I un-clicked it because of this.