D&D 3E/3.5 Multiclassing in D&D 3rd Edition

My best friend Rob Heinsoo was the lead designer on 4th Ed, and one of his jobs was to fix things that 3rd Ed hadn’t fixed. Multiclassing was on that list of systems that needed work. At one point when playing 3rd Ed, Rob was running a 3rd level barbarian-fighter-ranger. Given the way multiclassing worked, why not?

My best friend Rob Heinsoo was the lead designer on 4th Ed, and one of his jobs was to fix things that 3rd Ed hadn’t fixed. Multiclassing was on that list of systems that needed work. At one point when playing 3rd Ed, Rob was running a 3rd level barbarian-fighter-ranger. Given the way multiclassing worked, why not?

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Meanwhile, the barbarian-cleric I ran in the RPGA never gained a 2nd level in barbarian. Giving up cleric spells would have been too high a price to pay, and in fact the one level of barbarian that I had given this character was a nod to style and a tactical mistake. (Arguably playing anything other than a full-on cleric in 3rd Ed RPGA games was a mistake.) The Third Ed version of multiclassing “worked” in that you could mix and match as you pleased, but it didn’t really work in that most combinations were a mess. Multiclassing rules are a bitch.

When we started design on 3rd Ed, we knew that multiclassing would be an issue. The earliest takes were basically classes that combined the traits of two base classes, with a slightly steeper XP curve for leveling up. Theoretically, this system is like the Elf class in Red Box. The approach was solid in that it would have let us balance each “multiclasses” like we balanced the base classes. But this system seemed too limited for our purposes. Third Ed was about busting open limits, and combo class system seemed to make multiclassing more restricted than before. Today, after seeing the “mix-and-match” system in play for 20 years, I wonder whether we might have done better by developing that original system.

As it is, we got pretty far in the design process without solving the multiclass problem. In the end, I proposed more or less the current system, with levels from different classes stacking benefits on top of each other. The best thing about the system, I figure, was the concept of prestige classes. They were basically “multiclass only” classes. The prestige class concept was pretty exciting and made all sorts of interesting designs possible. And the beauty of the “libertarian” approach is that it required almost no work to balance. It wasn’t balanced.

One of the guiding tenets of the 3rd Ed design was “consequence, not restrictions.” It meant that we wouldn’t tell you that you can’t play a halforc paladin. Now halforcs have a Charisma penalty, so there will be consequences, but you can do what you want. This approach can be something of a disaster when it comes to making permanent choices about your character. And with the “anything goes” rules for multiclassing, there were more ways to build a weak character than to build a strong one.

On some level, balanced, anything-goes multiclassing rules are systemically impossible, and here’s a thought experiment to help you see what I mean. Suppose that the game designers hand-balance the base classes so that they play well next to each other. These base classes have the right power level and that right number of options: not too many or too few. That’s where you want the classes to be. Now imagine that you add on an algorithmic system for taking any two of those classes and combining them in any combination of levels. Maybe throw in a couple extra classes, up to as many classes as you have levels. What sort of “class” are you going to end up with when you combine different classes into one? The ideal result is that the character has more options balanced against less overall power. In addition, the increase in the number of options has to be modest enough that the player doesn’t get burdened by having too many. If you hit that ideal sweet spot that balances power with options, you’re lucky. Most combinations, especially with spellcasters, come with too harsh a penalty for the benefit. For others, like the fighter-ranger-barbarians, there was an increase not only versatility but also in effectiveness.

The multiclass rules are a dramatic example of how treating things the same is a mistake if those things are different. The rules allow players to mix and match classes in virtually any combination, as if the Nth level of any class is the equivalent of the 1st level (or Nth level) of any other class, even when combined. With this “wild west” or “libertarian” approach to multiclassing, combinations are bound to vary from weaker to stronger depending on how well the classes line up. Two classes that rely on Strength and Dexterity, like fighter and ranger combo up pretty well. But what about a Strength-based, heavily armored class with an Intelligence-based class with spellcaster that’s penalized for wearing armor? Any system that makes the fighter-ranger OK is going to be hard going for the fighter-wizard. If the game designers balance the system to makes the fighter-wizard OK, then the fighter-ranger is too strong. Those two combinations are quite different, so using the same rules for both of them leads to imbalance somewhere in the system.

To complicate things further, there were countless ways to combine two classes. If the fighter-1/wizard-9 is balanced, can the fighter-5/wizard-5 be balanced, and the fighter-9/wizard-1? Not really. There are so many multiclass options that inevitably most of them are going to be too strong or, more likely, too weak.

One problem with multiclassing is that classes came front-loaded with lots of great stuff at 1st level. If you’re a barbarian, the reasoning went, you want to be able to rage at 1st level. We toyed with the idea of giving each class a special feature that only single-class characters would get, but it was a new idea and it would have taken lots of work to get right, and we passed.

For 4th Edition, an overarching goal was to prevent players from making choices that led to them being disappointed. They headed off the problem of multiclass characters by not allowing regular multiclassing. A fighter could pick up some bits from the wizard class, and you could play a class built from scratch to be an arcane spellcasting warrior, but you couldn’t give yourself a bad experience by building a fighter-5/wizard-5.

For 13th Age, Rob and I forced a solution. For one thing, the rules support only an even split between two classes, reducing the complexity by at least two-thirds. The rules ended up somewhat resembling the AD&D multiclass rules, combining reduced-power versions of two classes. We also force every class/class combination to care equally about two different abilities. That way there’s no natural advantage for a combination of two classes with the same main ability, such as the bard-sorcerer, who needs Dex as much as Cha. Each class-class combination also got hand-balanced with power possibly adjusted up or down and special rules provided when necessary.

Fifth edition gets a lot of things right. It has some forms of “multiclassing” built into the classes, such as the fighter’s eldritch knight option, which is a nice touch and easy to balance. Fifth Ed also returns to the mix-and-match system, but they plug a lot of holes when they do. Many rules contribute to a smoother multiclassing system: ability minimums, limited proficiencies, more generous spellcasting, classes getting cool stuff at 2nd level, and the universal proficiency bonus. These concise, useful rules obviously come from people who played the hell out of 3rd Ed and knew exactly what was wrong with multiclassing. Even so, the various combinations all are going to work more or less well, and only some of those combinations can be balanced right. Spellcasters still lose out on their most powerful spellcasting levels, making it painful to multiclass with a non-casting class. Multiclass rules are a pain to design.
 

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Jonathan Tweet

Jonathan Tweet

D&D 3E, Over the Edge, Everway, Ars Magica, Omega World, Grandmother Fish

dave2008

Legend
Ideally, D&D in 6e would end up being class based, but only having the classes go about 10 levels, after which you had your choice of Prestige class/Paragon Path/Epic Destiny to mix things up. Maybe sub-classes or beefed up background could make be added earlier.
I like this idea a lot actually. I could see the whole game organized a around a lvl 1-10 and lvl 11-20 divide.
 

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Fanaelialae

Legend
I don't mind 5e style multiclassing. It's explicitly optional, and it enables plenty of options.

The one thing I didn't care for in 3e or 5e was that it by default allowed a character to learn in a short time what took starting characters years to learn. Not everyone cared about that, admittedly, but it did bother me. Becoming a 1st level wizard takes years of study for a new character, but a 1st level fighter can do it after after one adventure? You could say that the fighter has been studying magic in his off time but several years worth of study always seemed like a stretch to me. Plus, sometimes it didn't make sense in context, such as if something recent had prompted the fighter's interest in magic.

What ultimately came up with for 5e is requiring multiclassing to typically be taken at the start. I usually start campaigns at level 3, so if you want to multiclass, you need to use those 3 levels to gain the 1st level of any class you want to have levels in. A fighter 1 / rogue 1 / wizard 1 could gain a level in any of those three classes upon gaining a level, but not in any other classes. Exceptions can be made for unusual circumstances. A character who gains a deity's blessing would have the option of becoming a cleric despite not starting out as one. Additionally, if I ever had several years of downtime in a campaign, it would be an option then too.

The secondary benefit of this is that all multiclassing is paid for up front. In many cases, the most advantageous method of multiclassing is to wait for a dead level from your primary class and then dip a level of a more beneficial class. In this case, you slow the advancement of your primary class, delaying access to abilities you actually want in exchange for that dip.

In the case of spellcasters, I also allow non-casting classes to count as 1/4 casters for purposes of advancement. It doesn't actually make a fighter/wizard a great option, but it at least makes it a slightly less bad option. It makes sense to me that even if you are focusing on other areas of advancement, you'd still be improving with respect to spell casting at least a little.
 

dave2008

Legend
Thanks for your reply dave2008. Yes, almost classless, but not quite. The powers are still listed under each race and class. And a character has to progress in that class in order to choose from its powers. It's ultra-multi-classy.
Yes, but all you have to do is say: you can pick powers from another class, and it is essentially classless. Now I would think ideally you plan for this and have the powers balanced by level or tier or whatever metric you want (possibly with prerequisites) and you have a great classless system that is wearing a class system disguise.
 
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Worrgrendel

Explorer
Main issue really with ad&d MCing is no humans and some funky xp tables.

Humans did get Dual Classing though. An interesting alternative that in some ways makes a little more sense. Choose a class until a certain point then completely refocus to another class. You throw yourself fully into it so that youdon’t get the class abilities of the first class until you surpass the first class in levels. I didn’t agree with you completely forgot how to be the first class for X levels but they had to make it distinctly different enough I guess.
 


Zardnaar

Legend
Humans did get Dual Classing though. An interesting alternative that in some ways makes a little more sense. Choose a class until a certain point then completely refocus to another class. You throw yourself fully into it so that youdon’t get the class abilities of the first class until you surpass the first class in levels. I didn’t agree with you completely forgot how to be the first class for X levels but they had to make it distinctly different enough I guess.

No a fan of dual classing either. Tweak human, dump level limits and let them MC and Demi humans dual class. Or all of the above but remove dual classing full stop.
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I quite like C&C's take on old school multiclassing. Rather than levelling two (or three for human) classes at different rates you combine the classes into something resembling the becmi elf, even adjusting the hit die to somewhere in between the two classes.

Another option is the enhanced class where you might get a few of the class abilities of another class tacked onto your main class and paying an additional XP cost for each level. You could create a bard similar to the 2e bard by adding in limited spellcasting of the illusionist to the bard class (which has more in common with warriors than rogues in C&C). A cleric of a Mystra might have limited wizard spellcasting while the cleric of Bhaal might pick up some assassin abilities.
 

Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
I don't like WotC-era multiclassing. My favorite class in 2e was a mage/thief, and that concept is simply impossible now. A character cannot be a mage/thief at first level and I feel it's a huge loss. Picking level a la carte means you're never really multi-classing, you're only ever dual-classing, and it rubs me the wrong way.

The 3.0 Dungeon Master's Guide had an option for multiclass 1st level characters that was left out of 3.5, which made me sad.

The problem with subclass versions of these concepts is that, even aside from the fact that you STILL can't actually play the concept at 1st level, they always have the baloney "spells known" handicap introduced with the sorcerer class and/or get restricted to only a school of magic or two. I understand on some level why they do that, bit for me it's just watering down the idea to a point where it isn't interesting or worth jumping through the hoops necessary to make something kind of similar but inferior in every way.
 

This is something that I really miss in 5E. I liked having racial penalties, and I liked having favored classes. I felt they added a small layer of nuance from a lore perspective, and a little bit of complexity and system mastery to the character builds...race was just a little more important, and for a different reason. Lots of folks complained about how it made cherry-picking and level-dipping harder, but I always considered that a feature and not a bug.

Racial penalties for NPCs or the common folk, sure, but not for PCs. If you want a reduced Charisma for your half-orc or a reduced Constitution for your elf, just assign one of your lower rolls to that stat and call it a "racial penalty." But don't penalize the player who wants an elf that can drink a dwarf under the table or a half-orc Casanova.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Racial penalties for NPCs or the common folk, sure, but not for PCs.
Why not?

PCs are common folk in terms of race, just jumped-up a little in terms of ability.
If you want a reduced Charisma for your half-orc or a reduced Constitution for your elf, just assign one of your lower rolls to that stat and call it a "racial penalty." But don't penalize the player who wants an elf that can drink a dwarf under the table or a half-orc Casanova.
In other words, remove the challenge from something that by the lore in most settings should be a challenge to play, is that right?

If you want an elf that can drink a dwarf under the table you're on average going to be out of luck.

If you want a half-orc Casanova just play it, or try to, and see how the world reacts. I get to see this every Saturday night - one long-standing PC in our group is* a middlin'-Charisma part-orc who thinks he's the ladies man to end all ladies men, much to everyone else's amusement - and sometimes amazement when he actually pulls it off.

* - well, was; not long ago he put on the wrong bit of clothing and became she, and she's since decided to just run with it and not try to get changed back.
 

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