D&D General Help Me Build the D&D Game I Want to Run

[DND_Reborn]

It's hard to articulate but I feel like trying to make 5E feel like 2E/BECM is sort of like bad sci fi TV aliens: you know they are just people in rubber masks. Am I barking up the wrong tree? The 5E DNA is strong, and even with curated player options and house rules it still feels like 5E.

What is wrong with it feeling like 5E? Am I missing something?

I do understand your feeling. I've been using my free time and reading through B/X again. I am sorely tempted to play it. The simpler rule-set is appealing.

But more to your point, I think the general feeling at many tables nowadays is about moving the adventure along and not getting bogged down in the mundane things such as food/water/weather/etc. Now, you can incorporate those elements into 5E as part of the challenge, and thus part of the adventure, but with many of the class features and spells, overcoming them becomes a simple check or something.

You party lost all of its food in a flash flood. No problem, our survivalist-type character only needs to make a DC 10 Wisdom (Survival) check and can gather/hunt food for the whole party. Problem solved!

To change that you have to make the gather/hunt activity part of the adventure in a fun and exciting way, otherwise it is boring and you realize why it was reduced to a check.

 

[Reynard]

What is wrong with it feeling like 5E? Am I missing something?

In general I like 5E fine, but I want a game that feel more like AD&D in its bones, if that makes any sense. This test session with the house rules and curated options lists was okay (minus the outlander obviating the need for carrying supplies) until they finally went into battle against the manticores. The 5E DNA came out suddenly: the bard casting cloud of daggers really focused it for me. "That's not what a bard is," I thought.

I know that's not really a fair way to think about it, but there it is.

 

[Mepher]

I do understand your feeling. I've been using my free time and reading through B/X again. I am sorely tempted to play it. The simpler rule-set is appealing.

I have been stuck with this dilemma for a couple years now. At its core I am not a huge fan of 5E. I think everything is over the top. I just prefer a slower paced game with much less abilities. Fast healing, fast xp, big damage just seems like a video game to me. The problem is that as a general rule, players LOVE it. Even my old school AD&D players would prefer to PLAY in a 5E game. None of them want to step up and DM it but they are fine to play it.

I went all in as a DM when we switched so I have most of the published adventures, yet never played them. I have Tome of Beasts, Creature Codex, and the yet released Tome of Beast 2. I have the Nord Games bestiary. I have Tales of Margreave from Kobold Press. Spell cards, physical books as well as DNDBeyond books...etc the list goes on. So honestly I have enough reasons to continue with 5E. If I can make "some" changes to bring it more in line with my expectations then it's good but I agree, the 5E DNA is strong. You can't change much without affecting other things. It's a work in progress though. Hopefully I can come up with the game I want to run without too many changes.

 

[Mepher]

Oh and lets not forget the HUNDREDS of pdfs I have bought from DMs Guild over the years. I have years and years of ready made 5E content. Not to only figure out how to not hate the system when the players hit around level 7. I love running the game during levels 1-5. It starts to wear on me once they hit 6+ and they just become superheros. It's not like the are the vulnerable Christopher Reeves Superman...they are the modern punching guys through city blocks Superman. I hate it at that point.

 

[DND_Reborn]

In general I like 5E fine, but I want a game that feel more like AD&D in its bones, if that makes any sense. This test session with the house rules and curated options lists was okay (minus the outlander obviating the need for carrying supplies) until they finally went into battle against the manticores. The 5E DNA came out suddenly: the bard casting cloud of daggers really focused it for me. "That's not what a bard is," I thought.

I know that's not really a fair way to think about it, but there it is.

No, I agree, that is not what a Bard, in my vision, should do either.

There are times when I think it would be easier to bring the elements of 5E I like into the AD&D I love than the other way around. I recently exposed one of the other players to AD&D for the first time (1E). He LOVED it, he loved the feel and how easy it was to play his character.

 

[dave2008]

In general I like 5E fine, but I want a game that feel more like AD&D in its bones, if that makes any sense. This test session with the house rules and curated options lists was okay (minus the outlander obviating the need for carrying supplies) until they finally went into battle against the manticores. The 5E DNA came out suddenly: the bard casting cloud of daggers really focused it for me. "That's not what a bard is," I thought.

I know that's not really a fair way to think about it, but there it is.

To cover it in that much detail you would need to curate the spell list of each class. Not something I would want to do, but could go a long way to get the feel your looking for.

 

[BookBarbarian]

So I know you don't want a different system, but how about a OGL products that use 5e?

I recently picked up a humble bundle with practically all the Adventures in Middle-Earth books. I've found it to be the best Low Magic, gritty version of 5E I've found.

I think it covers a lot of your wants. It's got spell-less versions of the Bard and Ranger. It has an overland travelling system that makes survival non-trivial. It has a suggested spell list of spells that could be incorporated in Middle-Earth (or really any less flashy magical world) so no Goodberry, prestidigitation, or any other 'quality of life' improvement spells. And it's all using the 5e ruleset.

I think it can pretty easily have the LotR serial numbers filed off. In fact I think that's what Handiwork games is pretty much doing with Beowulf: Age of Heroes (although destined for one player and DM only) you can check out their free adventure here:

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

 

[Reynard]

So I know you don't want a different system, but how about a OGL products that use 5e?

I recently picked up a humble bundle with practically all the Adventures in Middle-Earth books. I've found it to be the best Low Magic, gritty version of 5E I've found.

I think it covers a lot of your wants. It's got spell-less versions of the Bard and Ranger. It has an overland travelling system that makes survival non-trivial. It has a suggested spell list of spells that could be incorporated in Middle-Earth (or really any less flashy magical world) so no Goodberry, prestidigitation, or any other 'quality of life' improvement spells. And it's all using the 5e ruleset.

I think it can pretty easily have the LotR serial numbers filed off. In fact I think that's what Handiwork games is pretty much doing with Beowulf: Age of Heroes (although destined for one player and DM only) you can check out their free adventure here:

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

I like AiME a lot. My original intent was to try and stick with as much of the 5E core as possible and just tweak to get it where I want it, but it feels less and less possible as I investigate.

 

[dave2008]

I like AiME a lot. My original intent was to try and stick with as much of the 5E core as possible and just tweak to get it where I want it, but it feels less and less possible as I investigate.

Your house rules seemed great for your intent. However, it seems you are having an issue with the amount of magic (your bard example). How about only allowing half casters or require a multicasting (50% max) if you want to dip into a full caster.

Also, what was your reasoning for starting at 4th level? Maybe you explained it, but it seems counter-intuitive to your stated goals

 

[Reynard]

Your house rules seemed great for your intent. However, it seems you are having an issue with the amount of magic (your bard example). How about only allowing half casters or require a multicasting (50% max) if you want to dip into a full caster.

Also, what was your reasoning for starting at 4th level? Maybe you explained it, but it seems counter-intuitive to your stated goals

4th to 7th or 8th level is my sweet spot in mot forms of D&D, so I figured it would not be especially useful to test 1st level.