Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[QuentinGeorge]

My homebrew setting, originally created in 2nd edition, has been running non stop in all editions except 4th. I have an island of psions called "mystics", so as you can imagine, the original 5E idea jelled pretty well with my lore.

But mechanically no one liked it as far as I know. So this island remained isolated and unvisited.

 

[Parmandur]

Honest answer. Since the beginning of the 5e era which of the following have you seen more often in the circles in which you discuss Dungeons & Dragons?

1. I want there to be a fleshed out psionic class.
2. I want there to be a fleshed out Magic the Gathering setting.

Oh, 2, easily. People have been asking for Magic flavored D&D consistently since the 90's.

 

[Parmandur]

My homebrew setting, originally created in 2nd edition, has been running non stop in all editions except 4th. I have an island of psions called "mystics", so as you can imagine, the original 5E idea jelled pretty well with my lore.

But mechanically no one liked it as far as I know. So this island remained isolated and unvisited.

"On second thought, let's not go there...it is a very silly place..."

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Oh, 2, easily. People have been asking for Magic flavored D&D consistently since the 90's.

You know....back in the day when I still played MTG (From when it started through Fallen Empires)....it always seemed like a no brainer to have a MTG setting book for DnD. If nothing else think of all the money they would save on having to commission artwork for the books!

Much later in time, with the Ravnica book, I like that they finally bridged together the two fantasy games. Unfortunately I know nothing about Ravnica lore and have no need for a new campaign setting since I already have a homebrew one that has existed since the 5e books first released.

Now if they released a Forgotten Realms set of MTG.....

 

[ZeshinX]

Honest answer. Since the beginning of the 5e era which of the following have you seen more often in the circles in which you discuss Dungeons & Dragons?

1. I want there to be a fleshed out psionic class.
2. I want there to be a fleshed out Magic the Gathering setting.

Easily #1 for those in my group. Since about 93/94 the group I game with regularly loathed the idea of ever marrying the two IPs. Oh sure, seemed like a natural fit, but we liked them better as their own, distinct things. Still, it was inevitable the two would bleed into one another, especially once they were under the same roof when WotC acquired TSR.

We can honestly say we're enormously glad it took as long as it did, but we can also honestly say that it's been done in a way that doesn't seem at all egregious or greedy. Setting book and they move on, without any particular impact on other released content. The overt MTG elements in D&D are pretty much self-contained to their relevant book and pretty much stay there. We joke about them a bit, then go back to ignoring them.

This is not to imply we give a hard time to those who enjoy the pairing. Not at all. If they enjoy it, they enjoy it and that's a good thing. It's just not to our liking.

 

[Horwath]

Personaly,

I just want a version with power points, more points in power used-more/better effect.

Also not having verbal/somatic components is a must have.

Ability to "burn" HPs for more power points is also desirable.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

In conclusion: The UA Psionics are never going to make enough people happy because the people who are interested in UA and want psionics are divided into opposing “all-or-nothing” camps.

This is true. However, this should also be apparent to WotC by now, and there is a very simple solution: WotC need to stop depending on feedback and use their professional judgment as game designers instead.

The "version of psionics I liked" whether that be 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th edition was designed that way.

 

[Minigiant]

Jeremy Crawford actually mentioned this problem in a twitter post a while back. The "psionics are different" approach is never going to happen, so those who want that will never be happy.

I think that is core issue.

Some people just want a psion class, a few psionic subclasses for a couple existing classes, and some feats.
Some people just want a few subclasses and a psionic replacement conversion for existing classes.
Some people want an analog of arcane/divine magic as psionics with it's own psionic full, half, thrid, and alternate user classes
Some people want a whole psionic system that layers one top of the existing class based game and a class that can drop all other learning to master it.
And some people, mostly new players don't care.

WOTC will have to choose which way they go. I think the first one is currently ahead.
I think the Psionic Soul is a test to see if the Psionic Talent Die meld well with Sorcery points. If so the sorcerer and the monk will be options for the core full psionic classes. This is because they both already have Points systems(Sorcery points, Ki)
The Psi Knight and the Soul Knife would be options for a psionic "third caster" character. The PTD wll link them to the monk and sorcerer.
Depending on the sorcerer feedback, a full psionic class may or may not happen. If it doesn't it will be like the bard. A full caster will a focused spell list and many options of their PTD.

 

[Hussar]

The standard sci-fi type of psionics is not magical in any way, so things like Detect Magic, Dispel Magic, Anti-Magic Field, etc, would not work on it. And while shoving that type of system into a fantasy, magic-based setting/game is what some people seem to want, it just does not mesh well with the other rules, especially in a system that is trying to keep things fairly simple, like 5th Ed. Back while I was still interested in Pathfinder and reading the Paizo forums, I remember when they announced they were going to add psionics to the game and call it Mind Magic. Pathfinder is much more complex, but they still had to make it magical in some way. That caused some head shaking and facepalming. It was shortly after that, that I stopped following Pathfinder, so I do not even know if they went through with that name.

If they want to get some of this into 5th Ed, and try to make it magical, so all the rules apply to it, they really need to play up the psychic, paranormal, supernatural side of these kinds of powers, which would link at least some of it to the Sorcerer, but also to the Warlock. I think a psychic subclass for the Warlock could be very interesting.

and

In many case of sci fi and literature, the difference is simple, but with wide ramifications.

If you use magic, you are using magic.

Conversely, psionics, even if appearing similar, is actually "science" and a real cause and effect.

Spock was not using magic.*




*I should put that in my sig.

See, the thing that's being ignore here is that you almost never have any setting where you have magic AND psionics of any kind. Why would you? Psionics in genre fiction is just magic by another name. We're not allowed to have magic in our SF setting, so, Spock does a Mind Meld - but, apparently, if anyone else does it, fans get in a tizzy - see the recent Picard series.

If it's not magic, and it's just science, then anyone can learn how to do it. But, only Jedi can use the Force. Only Vulcans can Mind Meld. Etc. Psionics absolutely IS magic, just in a funny set of glasses.

I'm actually really struggling to think of any non-D&D derived setting where you have magic and psionic powers in the same setting.

 

[Guest 6801328]

But D&D is played at our own tables - that is the future of the game.

That's a nice sound bite, but also not true. There will be future content, future editions, and they will build upon what is published...what is "official"...from the past. And that will impact people who want to play the game.

Take 4e as an example. Your argument could be thrown at 4e fans: "Play the game you want. What do you care about what other tables are doing, or what WotC is publishing?"

Except that almost everybody else wants to play a different version of the game, and there's no new 4e content being published.