D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[SkidAce]

I don’t like Psionics. I don’t need it. For me magic is Psionics. They are the same thing. Magic is just what a more primitive or medieval society would call Psionics. End of story.

However, I know enough good people that think it will make the game more fun for them. So they should probaly make Psionic classes and archetypes for those that want them.

Well said friend.

/thumbs up

 

[TwoSix]

So Psionics are just spells you can't see, am I getting that right?

Broadly, yes. One of the big hooks of psionics is that it doesn't require any external focus; no chanting, no ritualistic objects.

 

[Mistwell]

They have not abandoned the Psion.

"As much as many playtesters enjoyed the psionic themes in the mystic, feedback was also clear that the class encroached on other classes’ territory and that it was often too complex, too powerful, or both. Following that feedback, we’ve decided to say farewell to the mystic and explore other ways of giving players psi-themed powers, as we did with the features of the Great Old One warlock in the Player’s Handbook. In 2019 and now in 2020, we’re enjoying that exploration, looking into providing options (subclasses, spells, and feats) that allow different types of characters to manifest psionic power. The philosophy of this approach is most akin to the one taken in the 1st edition of D&D, where psionic powers weren’t the domain of any particular class but were available for characters of different types to experience.:

Read the writing on the wall man. They've abandoned a dedicated Psi class (which is what most people seem to mean by "Psion"). I don't think it's coming back. At least, not any time this year.

 

[dave2008]

Broadly, yes. One of the big hooks of psionics is that it doesn't require any external focus; no chanting, no ritualistic objects.

I thought in previous editions it did require a psi focus and there often tend to be some gestures or at least tell-tale expressions involved in fiction. Not to mention exhaustion.

 

[Aldarc]

I though it previous editions it did require a psi focus and there often tend to be some gestures or at least tell-tale expressions involved in fiction. Not to mention exhaustion.

In 3.5E, "psionic focus" was less like an tool (e.g., orb, staff, rod, holy symbol, etc.) and more akin to a specialized form of Concentration. You could expend your Focus to power your psionic feats, talents, etc. For example, if you had the feat Mental Leap, then you could expend your psionic focus to gain a +10 to Jump. Then you would need to make a Concentration check to regain your psionic focus.

 

[Maxperson]

Isn't that exactly what you are doing by saying a non full caster class is not a psion. If Bob wants a half-caster psion fighter / jedi, who are you to crap on his fun?

No. WotC determined Psions to be full casters. In all edition where they have been a class or a possible class(Mystic), they have been full casters. It's not me just saying it. I'm pointing out what WotC and TSR have established over nearly 3 decades.

Edit: And a Jedi isn't a Psion. It's a Psychic Warrior.

However, I think I am finally understanding what you are talking about is not psion/psionics, but a Psion. As in the Psion class must be a full class. You are not saying psionics requires a full class, but you are saying a Psion must be a full class. Is that correct?

Yes. It doesn't work as a subclass of any other class out there, mainly because of the lack of V, S, M, but also for other reasons. A Psion would not use those starting at 1st level. I have no issue with the subclasses released so far that use psionics, though.

Last thing, a Psion class, can only do psionic stuff and not be a full "caster" class. Like a ranger is a class (only does ranger stuff), but isn't a full casting class. A Psion class would need to be a caster at all by your own admission, it just needs to only do Psion stuff, IYO. Did I get that correct?

The Psion has been established as a full caster by nearly 3 decades of being a full caster in all editions it has appeared or almost appeared in. It needs to be a full caster.

 

[dave2008]

In 3.5E, "psionic focus" was less like an tool (e.g., orb, staff, rod, holy symbol, etc.) and more akin to a specialized form of Concentration. You could expend your Focus to power your psionic feats, talents, etc. For example, if you had the feat Mental Leap, then you could expend your psionic focus to gain a +10 to Jump. Then you would need to make a Concentration check to regain your psionic focus.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

[dave2008]

No. WotC determined Psions to be full casters. In all edition where they have been a class or a possible class(Mystic), they have been full casters. It's not me just saying it. I'm pointing out what WotC and TSR have established over nearly 3 decades.

Conversely, they could decide they are not full casters like back in 1e, which is what they said they are doing in the recent UA.

The Psion has been established as a full caster by nearly 3 decades of being a full caster in all editions it has appeared or almost appeared in. It needs to be a full caster.

I disagree, I would prefer a Psion was not a caster at all. If I wanted to play a Psion I would want it to work completely differently than a caster class. I prefer it has completely different mechanic and rules. IMO, making it a "caster" is less like a Psion than making it something different. If it is just a caster, then just refluff a wizard or sorcerer with unique spells and call it done. That is not interesting to me though.

Finally, I don't care what has been done in the past. I would be more interested in getting it correct now.

 

[Mistwell]

Aha, you got me @Mistwell. You could dredge up a single example from a forty year old series. Good for you. Have a cookie.

From DMDavid:

"In the years before D&D, many popular fantasy series started with medieval worlds and added psionics to include something that worked like magic. Gygax included Andre Norton on his Appendix N list of inspirational authors. Her most popular series, Witch World, mixed psionics and magic. The Deryni series by Katherine Kurtz started in 1970 and centered on a race of humans with magical and psychic abilities. Marion Zimmer Bradley started her Darkover series 1958 and wrote it for decades. Set on a lost colony planet, Darkover mixes medieval technology and psi powers that work like magic."

This might not be a thing you've read much of in your fantasy, but that doesn't equate with it not being a thing in fantasy.

By the way, in addition to Darkover going on for decades, the latest Deryni novel came out a few years ago. The novels may have started long ago, but they're still going strong.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Oh, funny, I didn't know about this.

The philosophy of this approach is most akin to the one taken in the 1st edition of D&D, where psionic powers weren’t the domain of any particular class but were available for characters of different types to experience.:

Max, are you reading?