D&D 5E Survey: What should the next Magic the Gathering Campaign Setting be?

[Remathilis]

Almost every key element of Innistrad can be found in Ravenloft except Eldrazi and Angel worship, although Ravenloft does have Bluetspur, a domain whose Darklord is an Illithid Elder Brain.


Both planes have Werewolves check, Fiends check, ghosts check, Vampires check, flesh golems like things check, creepy constructs like dolls/gargoyles check, Evil Plants and Bugs check, monsterous elementals check, murderous insane humans check.

Innistrad Eldrazi monsters.

But Ravenloft has Doppelgangers, Illithids, Drow, Duergar, Death Knights, Liches, Mummies, Illithid Vampires, Demilich, Flame Skulls, Jackleweres, for example. And most importantly Darklords.

Darklord - 1d4chan

For Innistrad you really already have all the rules you need to play it except Eldrazi, it has almost no distinct monster types unlike other MtG settings, no unique playable races, no unique classes or subclasses thanks to Monster Hunter being released already, I mean you could basically just use the art book for Innistrad or the Planeshift article. Maybe you could use a few key NPC stats or an intro adventure. That is about it.

Ravenloft on the other hand has alot more unique rules and variety to it, it's a lot bigger and more diverse then Innistrad.

On the other hand, Ravenloft has a lot of baggage Innistrad does not. Do Darklords overshadow most other horrors making most do domains one-note affairs. Most realms are too isolated and suffer from "why is Dark Ages Romainia next to 1700's France" type of worldbuilding. There is a number of "Classic D&D world but spooky" domains (Sithicus being the classic example) and there are a lot of just badly done domains or Lords (Van Karkov, I'm looking at you). And that doesn't even touch some of the problematic elements like the handling of gypsy stereotypes or the slave/plantation domain of Souragne. Yikes.

Innistrad, being a simpler setting, feels more like a single story rather than an anthology of separate ones. Of course, it has its failings as well, the biggest being a humanocentric world will everything else being a monster. It wasn't designed to handle kitchen-sink D&D and as such some of it doesn't fit well.

The way I'd do it is to make a Worlds of Horror book that is if half-devoted to Innistrad and half to the best domains of Ravenloft (devoid of the core/metasetting, like CoS is) with material applicable to both. Either that, or a massive revising of the settings to fix some of its larger meta issues.

 

[gyor]

There is an in setting explanation for why Ravenloft is so diverse, it's an artificial place, a Prison, created by the Dark Powers so of course cultures don't follow the kind of natural patterns of cultures and their cultural interaction in other settings where most folks have freedom to evovle, Ravenloft is like a Cross between a Prison and a Labatory for the Dark Powers, it's inhabitants are just toys for darker things.

 

[Remathilis]

There is an in setting explanation for why Ravenloft is so diverse, it's an artificial place, a Prison, created by the Dark Powers so of course cultures don't follow the kind of natural patterns of cultures and their cultural interaction in other settings where most folks have freedom to evovle, Ravenloft is like a Cross between a Prison and a Labatory for the Dark Powers, it's inhabitants are just toys for darker things.

I mean, I get that as the meta-setting explanation, it's just that it's a bad one. Ravenloft has been pulled in two directions over the years; the weekend-in-hell module that early Ravenloft products used (and seems favored by WotC) were the domain and Darklord is the prominent feature, and the living campaign setting of late 2e and the 3e Arthaus eras that tried to force the domains to be more than backdrop for thier Darklords and fostered common elements like religion and trade across domains. The two approaches are at odds with one another, and it is that patchwork design that makes it hard to believe as a unified setting.

Innistrad was designed to be a continuous world from the ground up, without domains or lords or closed borders or Mists to block your path. Most of it's evils are killable without the domain collapsing or death-is-just-a-setback mechanisms. It has a fairly cohesive culture, religion, and trade that feels like people live in it, rather than CoS's soulless husks there to both torment and be abused by there Lord. In short, it feels like a game setting rather than a series of modules each with it's own tropes and tone.

Which is why my basic idea is that rather than have Ravenloft try to support the style it does weakly (unified setting), let Innistrad handle being a larger monster mash setting and then take Ravenloft's domains and have them be unconnected prisons free to play in their own tropes. Barovia, Mordent, Lamordia, Forlorn, etc would all be demiplanes floating in the shadowfell you visit when the Mists come for you and you leave when you have satisfied them. In essence, Ravenloft goes all in on weekend in Hell, Innistrad handles the living world setting. It creates a niche for both and caters to their unique strengths.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

So, I'm not very clear on the RL setting. Are folks saying that there's actually a big bad guy who created Barovia as a pocket universe to just torment Strahd?

If yes, has anyone ever done a campaign where that all becomes clear to the players and the players end up going after that even bigger evil guy, maybe even teaming up with Strahd to take them down?

 

[Urriak Uruk]

So, I'm not very clear on the RL setting. Are folks saying that there's actually a big bad guy who created Barovia as a pocket universe to just torment Strahd?

If yes, has anyone ever done a campaign where that all becomes clear to the players and the players end up going after that even bigger evil guy, maybe even teaming up with Strahd to take them down?

Yes, Ravenloft (and all of the Domains of Dread) were created by the Dark Powers. Although the lands all existed on the Material Plane, the Dark Powers essentially surround regions of them in mist and transport them into demiplanes within the Shadowfel.

Curse of Strahd establishes a temple where the Dark Powers can sort of be confronted. They really are more evil vestiges of entities, and don't really have personalities (or much motives either).

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Maybe the dark powers are caged in another dimension, and with a jailer who tries to avoid higher damage against innocent. The modus operanti of the Dark Powers is too different from the creatures of the Far Realm or the infernal planes.

Innistrad is a world, not only a demiplane, isn't it? Then there may be other continents with their own troubles about horror monsters.

The demiplane of the dread can create new domains, based in newer lines, for example Eberron, or Nethir Vale.

Ravenloft will come back. It is perfect to sell young adult novels of supernatural romance, or comics of zombie apocalypse.

My new theory is we will see a future module about the dark domain of Kalidnay, but when the metaplot of Dark Sun and Ravenloft to be ready to be continued.

* Eldraine is perfect to introduce new creatures, enough chibi or cute to be in a children cartoon, but also enough cool to be in a sword & sorcery work for young adults, for example centaurs with equine faces and big as ponies. WotC only has to suggest the concept, and the fandom will create lot of skepths of how they should be.

* We know nothing about stats for the planewalkers. Maybe WotC could create as new class like a nerfed version, the planerover or something like this. We don't know how the mana and its colors work in the d20 system.

 

[Parmandur]

Innistrad, being a simpler setting, feels more like a single story rather than an anthology of separate ones. Of course, it has its failings as well, the biggest being a humanocentric world will everything else being a monster. It wasn't designed to handle kitchen-sink D&D and as such some of it doesn't fit well.

We now have two examples, Ravnica and Theros, of WotC simply introducing limitations in regards to Races to maintain Setting flavor. They made Innistrad humanocentric for specific narrative and thematic reasons, which can easily apply to D&D as well: it would be a nice change of pace.

 

[Parmandur]

I mean, I get that as the meta-setting explanation, it's just that it's a bad one. Ravenloft has been pulled in two directions over the years; the weekend-in-hell module that early Ravenloft products used (and seems favored by WotC) were the domain and Darklord is the prominent feature, and the living campaign setting of late 2e and the 3e Arthaus eras that tried to force the domains to be more than backdrop for thier Darklords and fostered common elements like religion and trade across domains. The two approaches are at odds with one another, and it is that patchwork design that makes it hard to believe as a unified setting.

Innistrad was designed to be a continuous world from the ground up, without domains or lords or closed borders or Mists to block your path. Most of it's evils are killable without the domain collapsing or death-is-just-a-setback mechanisms. It has a fairly cohesive culture, religion, and trade that feels like people live in it, rather than CoS's soulless husks there to both torment and be abused by there Lord. In short, it feels like a game setting rather than a series of modules each with it's own tropes and tone.

Which is why my basic idea is that rather than have Ravenloft try to support the style it does weakly (unified setting), let Innistrad handle being a larger monster mash setting and then take Ravenloft's domains and have them be unconnected prisons free to play in their own tropes. Barovia, Mordent, Lamordia, Forlorn, etc would all be demiplanes floating in the shadowfell you visit when the Mists come for you and you leave when you have satisfied them. In essence, Ravenloft goes all in on weekend in Hell, Innistrad handles the living world setting. It creates a niche for both and caters to their unique strengths.

Exactly, all of this.

One of the fundamental differences between Ravenloft and Innistrad, is that I can see how I would take Princes of the Apocalypse, Lost Mines of Phandelver or Ghosts of Saltmarsh and retool them for Innistrad (mostly, Humanize the NPCs...). Ravenloft, not so much.

 

[Urriak Uruk]

We now have two examples, Ravnica and Theros, of WotC simply introducing limitations in regards to Races to maintain Setting flavor. They made Innistrad humanocentric for specific narrative and thematic reasons, which can easily apply to D&D as well: it would be a nice change of pace.

Greyhawk too has "soft" limitations, putting in a blurb about how more exotic races are reacted to less warmly than in FR.

 

[Remathilis]

Exactly, all of this.

One of the fundamental differences between Ravenloft and Innistrad, is that I can see how I would take Princes of the Apocalypse, Lost Mines of Phandelver or Ghosts of Saltmarsh and retool them for Innistrad (mostly, Humanize the NPCs...). Ravenloft, not so much.

The closest I think I could (and indeed have) to running a Ravenloft game set mostly in Darkon after the Grim Ascension but before Azalin's return (around the Domains of Dread era): huge diverse geographical region, a neutered dark lord (Death) that cannot directly challenge the PCs yet lingers as a constant threat, demi-lords the PCs can face and win against, all the major PC races and classes, and rival factions all vying for power. It felt very open and a place where the PCs could make an impact against the coming apocalypse.

Of course, 3e retconned that with Azalin's return and status quo restored. But that was the closest I feel I got to Ravenloft being a setting vs the escape-the-sealed-evil-in-a-can setting.