Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Aldarc]

Sorry, that's not how it works. I mean, you cannot possibly have warp drives either, but, that doesn't make Star Trek fantasy. Just because something cannot be explained by current science does not make it magic.

If I were rounding up examples of psionic/magic abilities in science fiction or speculative literature, I would definitely tag Dune. Dune draws on a lot of mysticism. How is the Water of Life purified in the body? Basically magic. We're not given a lick of science mumbo jumbo for it. There's the Voice, which is basically magic. There is the Other Memory, which is a mystical Akashic memory for the bloodline. There is precognition and human lie detectors who can sense these things with their minds. Bene Gesserits who are referred to as "witches" and "sorceresses" due to their powers. Sure, not everything that can be explained is necessarily "magic," but it's not exactly trying to be hard sci-fi here.

 

[Maxperson]

Dune is pure Clarke's law. There is nothing in Dune apart from stillsuits and thumpers that can be extrapolated from existing science or technology. Using drug induced precognition to navigate through hyperspace? I don't think so. Forcefields you can stab through by moving slowly? Magic!

That's why it's science FICTION. The fiction part doesn't make it fantasy or magic. The tech doesn't have to be able to be tied to modern science. It can be imagined advances or new tech that we can imagine might exist.

Same thing. There is no real world science that can explain 11's abilities. It's magic.

Psi abilities are solidly sci-fi and have been for a very, very long time.

 

[Weiley31]

If we are throwing anecdotes out, most of what I have heard about Psionics from 3.5 and Pathfinder have generally been discussions of "I love my X character, they can heal better than the cleric and throw out [arbitrarily high number of dice] for damage every round and as long as a have [technobabble of abilities] up then the enemy can't even hit me."

Granted, that and the "my character is a [list of 6 different classes and prestige classes with a race that is half-template jargon]" are about the only 3.5 stories I ever hear beyond the bad stuff, so I can acknowledge that a small sample size is probably at fault.

One of the main reasons why glad 5E doesn't do that.

 

[Aldarc]

These categories are far less concrete than y'all are making them out to be. That's why there's also a trend to refer to these various overlapping genres as "speculative fiction" while acknowledging that the lines can be blurred between genres, whether intentionally or unintentionally, by the authors. There are far more interesting conversations we could be having about pointless D&D junk than trying to rehash the last fifty years of genre analysis.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That's why it's science FICTION. The fiction part doesn't make it fantasy or magic. The tech doesn't have to be able to be tied to modern science. It can be imagined advances or new tech that we can imagine might exist.

Psi abilities are solidly sci-fi and have been for a very, very long time.

Okay Max, explain how the ability to see into the future and talk to the dead is solidly science fiction. Then explain how whatever explanation you use doesn't equally apply to any magical way of doing it.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Aren't we at the point in fiction where there is so much crossover and blending of everything that the terms Sci-Fi and Fantasy aren't black and white?

Star Wars is very much a war movie....a sci-fi movie...and a fantasy movie depending on what portion of the plot you focus on.

The Dresden Files is both a detective story and a fantasy story, but no castles to be found there.

Ghostbusters....sci-fi and fantasy.

Dune....sci-fi and fantasy.

Dying Earth stories...sci-fi and fantasy.

Steampunk in general...sci-fi and fantasy.

Stranger Things....sci-fi and fantasy.

There are certainly things out there that stick to the original definitions, but there are enough crossovers that there are more Resee Cups out there than chocolate bars or jars of peanut butter.

I don’t see any fantasy...at least, what I think of as fantasy...in Stranger Things, Ghostbusters, or Dune.

Are you just equating “supernatural” with fantasy?

 

[Maxperson]

Okay Max, explain how the ability to see into the future and talk to the dead is solidly science fiction. Then explain how whatever explanation you use doesn't equally apply to any magical way of doing it.

Psi ability is the sci-fi answer to magic. It's literally NOT magic. It's pure mental ability.

Edit: Sci-fi even goes out of the way to explain it via the brain, different or greater amount of brain chemicals, brain mutations, etc. That's SCIENCE. Hence, Sci-fi.

 

[dave2008]

Edit: Sci-fi even goes out of the way to explain it via the brain, different or greater amount of brain chemicals, brain mutations, etc. That's SCIENCE. Hence, Sci-fi.

I know this is what you mean, but given our cultural moment I feel the need to be clear that is not SCIENCE (ie. fact and reality based). It most definitely FANTASY SCIENCE.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Sorry, that's not how it works. I mean, you cannot possibly have warp drives either,

Actually, there is a scientific paper on how you might have that.

but, that doesn't make Star Trek fantasy.

Yes it does.

Just because something cannot be explained by current science does not make it magic.

What is magic then, if not something that cannot be explained with science?

It's also not how SF is defined against Fantasy. The difference has very little to do with trope and mostly to do with theme. Fantasy is at its heart based on morality tales. SF is much more concerned with ethics.

This is both silly, and illustrates why trying to pidgeon-hole any story into any genre is dumb. I'm not interested in morality or ethics (I'm not even sure what the difference is). I just want to read about adventures.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I have consumed neither of these media (yeah I know) but depending on what you mean by "slowly" then the forcefield might be sciency. If it blocks vision and somehow gives the air a thick surface tension, then a bullet striking it could be stopped while a knife could go through it.

I've read it. It doesn't.