D&D 5E Here's why we want a Psion class

[Ovinomancer]

It's not a feat chain, though. It's OPTIONS. Just like you can spend a feat on GWM or you can spend it on Actor another less powerful feat.

Actor is quite powerful in the right campaign, even moreso than GWM. Those options are there not because they represent the ability to pick lesser or greater choices in the absolute, but because they offer different options to fit different game focuses. The suggestion you're making is a straight power increase -- it's always better to get the higher tier options. At that point, being able to choose a lower tier option doesn't address balance at all.

Here's a toy example: you can take feat 1 and get either ray of frost or firebolt. Taking feat 1 is the only way to qualify for feat 2. Feat two either gives you the other ability of feat 1 (the one you didn't select) OR it allows you to cast Wish once per day. The option to select the lower tier option doesn't address the fact that feat 2 is vastly more powerful. Otherwise I could balance any option by just allowing you to take a lesser, weaker choice, if you wanted to. That's not balance, it's lipstick.

 

[Maxperson]

Actor is quite powerful in the right campaign, even moreso than GWM. Those options are there not because they represent the ability to pick lesser or greater choices in the absolute, but because they offer different options to fit different game focuses. The suggestion you're making is a straight power increase -- it's always better to get the higher tier options. At that point, being able to choose a lower tier option doesn't address balance at all.

The bold is false. If actor is better in the right campaign, clairvoyance and clairaudience are also better than disintegrate or teleport in the right campaign. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Chaosmancer]

The bold is false. If actor is better in the right campaign, clairvoyance and clairaudience are also better than disintegrate or teleport in the right campaign. You can't have it both ways.

Then why are you ranking them by power level instead of just letting someone get disintegrate or teleport for a single feat?

 

[Maxperson]

Then why are you ranking them by power level instead of just letting someone get disintegrate or teleport for a single feat?

I'm just using his argument against him. Either feats already give the players the choice to choose more or less powerful feats as options and my idea is the same, or all feats are more powerful than all other feats under certain circumstances and that applies to my idea as well. He can't have it both ways.

By what he claimed, his bolded statement is false.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I'm just using his argument against him. Either feats already give the players the choice to choose more or less powerful feats as options and my idea is the same, or all feats are more powerful than all other feats under certain circumstances and that applies to my idea as well. He can't have it both ways.

By what he claimed, his bolded statement is false.

Absolutely, so long as we're talking about separated, non-teired options. But, in the instant case, you've indicated that the options are tiered, with the more powerful ones in the higher tiers. Again, in that case, if your balance is you might pick a less good option, you're still unbalanced.

 

[Maxperson]

Absolutely, so long as we're talking about separated, non-teired options. But, in the instant case, you've indicated that the options are tiered, with the more powerful ones in the higher tiers. Again, in that case, if your balance is you might pick a less good option, you're still unbalanced.

Nope. Either they are situational and therefore even, or they are not. That doesn't change just because someone else makes an opinion on power levels. You can't get a less good option if they are situational.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Nope. Either they are situational and therefore even, or they are not. That doesn't change just because someone else makes an opinion on power levels. You can't get a less good option if they are situational.

Is it more powerful to increase Dex or increase Int?

What if I said you cannot increase Dex until after you have increased Int?

Options can be situational but "balanced" but as soon as you start gating them, you are telling people that one set is more powerful than the other, and you can only get one if you pay for the first step first.

And no feat has a chain of other feats that are required for any character to get them. Yes, Wild Talent opens up psionic feats for non-psionic characters. Just like Snirvfelbin magic opens up warcaster if you are a snirvfelbin fighter, but you are talking about not being able to gain feat #3 until you have feats 1 and 2, which is a completely different dynamic.

 

[Krachek]

Feats chain! Don’t forget that most character will take one or two feats in their whole career.

 

[Maxperson]

Is it more powerful to increase Dex or increase Int?

That's subjective.

What if I said you cannot increase Dex until after you have increased Int?

What if you did? That doesn't make dex inherently more powerful. It just means you have set that limitation.

Options can be situational but "balanced" but as soon as you start gating them, you are telling people that one set is more powerful than the other, and you can only get one if you pay for the first step first.

It doesn't matter what I tell them if it isn't true. All I can tell them is my opinion.

And no feat has a chain of other feats that are required for any character to get them. Yes, Wild Talent opens up psionic feats for non-psionic characters. Just like Snirvfelbin magic opens up warcaster if you are a snirvfelbin fighter, but you are talking about not being able to gain feat #3 until you have feats 1 and 2, which is a completely different dynamic.

There is no difference between feat #1 and feat #3. They all give you two rolls. Your level, not the feat, determines what charts you have the CHOICE to roll on.

 

[Chaosmancer]

There is no difference between feat #1 and feat #3. They all give you two rolls. Your level, not the feat, determines what charts you have the CHOICE to roll on.

So, why not have one feat that says "you can take this feat multiple times"?