D&D 5E A truly horrifying Age of Worms

[TheSword]

Just out of interest. What are the reasons for not just removing clerics, paladins and Druid’s?

The consensus seems to be not to exclude them but I’m at a loss for why, if the players are happy not playing those classes? This isn’t adventurers league or a club game it’s a private table.

I’m interested in the advice, I just don’t understand the reason behind it?

 

[billd91]

If the players aren't happy playing those classes in general, then there's no need to remove them. They won't play them as a matter of personal taste.

But if your players do tend to like playing those roles, I think it's kind of lame to ban them just to raise the challenge level of the campaign. Frankly, this is one of those campaigns in which I would expect a player who suffers a PC death to come back as one of those classes - or at least hire one as an NPC.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Just out of interest. What are the reasons for not just removing clerics, paladins and Druid’s?

The consensus seems to be not to exclude them but I’m at a loss for why, if the players are happy not playing those classes? This isn’t adventurers league or a club game it’s a private table.

I’m interested in the advice, I just don’t understand the reason behind it?

That's certainly a straightforward option, and much better than trying to nerf those classes by boosting the spell levels.

It's a bit odd though, assuming you don't get rid of clerics/paladins in the campaign area as well. (A great evil that they should oppose is trying to take over, but they're not interested in taking up arms?) A cleric or paladin seems like a perfect fit for this campaign. They have more reason to be invested than a fighter or wizard.

Additionally, it still doesn't really fix the core issue. There are other classes that get access to some "problematic" abilities. Celestial warlocks, for example, who I believe can cast lesser restoration as of 3rd level (on a short rest no less). Bards can also cast lesser restoration starting at 3rd level.

 

[TheSword]

That's certainly a straightforward option, and much better than trying to nerf those classes by boosting the spell levels.

It's a bit odd though, assuming you don't get rid of clerics/paladins in the campaign area as well. (A great evil that they should oppose is trying to take over, but they're not interested in taking up arms?) A cleric or paladin seems like a perfect fit for this campaign. They have more reason to be invested than a fighter or wizard.

Additionally, it still doesn't really fix the core issue. There are other classes that get access to some "problematic" abilities. Celestial warlocks, for example, who I believe can cast lesser restoration as of 3rd level (on a short rest no less). Bards can also cast lesser restoration starting at 3rd level.

Well I think you’ve just answered why I was considering increasing the spell levels. Because it allows such classes to exist as NPCs in the game world with reduced powers while explaining why there isn’t a cleric or Paladin in the party. It also adds a more frightening backdrop to the campaign as the gods are being blocked by the coming apocalypse.

 

[Baron Opal II]

I had a rambling screed, but it wasn't even entertaining. I agree that increasing the foes by a certain amount would be a better option. I admit that I'm not very conversant about 5e, but it seems that if you spend more effort to solve one problem you have less on other issues. If all the cleric is doing is going to be curing disease, what other spells are they not going to have access to?

As to why not just ban classes that seem to be very appropriate choices to the campaign, it would only make sense to me if it was a campaign wide issue. You can't play a cleric because all of the cleric's powers have failed. So, raising the dead is now an issue- welcome to hardcore mode. So let's see how inventive you can be with your wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks in getting the needed magic.

If you should ban clerics, et al., how do you plan to nerf the enemy?

 

[Mort]

Additionally, it still doesn't really fix the core issue. There are other classes that get access to some "problematic" abilities. Celestial warlocks, for example, who I believe can cast lesser restoration as of 3rd level (on a short rest no less). Bards can also cast lesser restoration starting at 3rd level.

Sorcerers can access it too, with the right subclass.

The point is, banning, even soft banning, classes doesn't really address the problem.

Why not just play it straight, and if the players really have it too easy - have the undead adapt and have the diseases etc. be harder to cure?

 

[TheSword]

I had a rambling screed, but it wasn't even entertaining. I agree that increasing the foes by a certain amount would be a better option. I admit that I'm not very conversant about 5e, but it seems that if you spend more effort to solve one problem you have less on other issues. If all the cleric is doing is going to be curing disease, what other spells are they not going to have access to?

As to why not just ban classes that seem to be very appropriate choices to the campaign, it would only make sense to me if it was a campaign wide issue. You can't play a cleric because all of the cleric's powers have failed. So, raising the dead is now an issue- welcome to hardcore mode. So let's see how inventive you can be with your wizards, sorcerers, and warlocks in getting the needed magic.

If you should ban clerics, et al., how do you plan to nerf the enemy?

As it’s a conversion I’m not sure it was originally scaled for 5e challenge. There’s another good thread about converting the original CR5 Spawn of Kyuss to 5e and the outcome was that it is at best a CR 3 creature in this edition.

Natural Healing and improved casting in other classes means that the need for the cleric is much reduced.

 

[TheSword]

Sorcerers can access it too, with the right subclass.

The point is, banning, even soft banning, classes doesn't really address the problem.

Why not just play it straight, and if the players really have it too easy - have the undead adapt and have the diseases etc. be harder to cure?

For all the reasons mentioned above.

I would include divine warlocks and the favoured soul in the penalty as a divine casters. Doesn’t stop other sorcerers and warlocks.

 

[Mort]

Natural Healing and improved casting in other classes means that the need for the cleric is much reduced.

This is true, but nothing beats a cleric, especially a life cleric, for party healing.

Unless your foolish/brave enough to allow the RAW (as per sage advice) interpretation of goodberry - then nothing beats a life cleric/ druid.

 

[Mort]

For all the reasons mentioned above.

I would include divine warlocks and the favoured soul in the penalty as a divine casters. Doesn’t stop other sorcerers and warlocks.

What about bards? Just the spells that touch on healing magic?