Unearthed Arcana Why UA Psionics are never going to work in 5e.

[Maxperson]

They are new to 5e. Nobody is using them officially. Is that going to fall under this same umbrella? Will they be too much of a "new system" that they would be rejected?

Don't know. That was both my question and my point.

I'm talking about what Crawford said. And he said that mindflayers were an example of psionics without creating a psionic system. And that that seems to be what people want. Just put the word there, have the theme, and let us get to playing. No new mechanics, no new systems, just keep it simple.

You're taking his statement a step farther than what his statement actually says. He said that people don't want unique systems, not that they were okay with slapping on a "psionic" tag and just giving it a theme. There's quite a bit of difference between those two things.

And sure, maybe that will be fine. Maybe we'd be happy with it, it is pretty much what people have put forth as a solution to the problem of Psionics. What I didn't expect was it would come to this because we are rejecting any new system. Which, I'm not sure I like that idea. I like the potential of having something new eventually.

I wouldn't be fine with such a weak solution. That's the same as not having psionics at all. I mean, a creature can have telepathy without psionics. Slapping a "psionic" tag on this creature's telepathy, but not that one over there isn't giving 5e psionics.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I watched the brief video, and there is more nuance in what he is saying.

1) A passionate minority really liked the Psi Die.
2) The majority did not.
3) The majority also don't like new mechanics that feel too different than their standard 5e play experience
4) Their difficult job is to try to find a way to give both sides what they want

If I had to venture a guess, that doesn't mean they won't make new mechanics--it means they will be have to be careful that those new mechanics are both interesting to those who are into the novelty, but don't feel too different from the standard 5e experience for those who aren't. So expect psionics will have something unique to it, but it isn't going to change how the game plays, such as by introducing a gambling component to resource expenditure.

 

[Hoffmand]

Because then we get into this topic's whole thing about people's different expectations. I for one would be the first to say "Why even bother with 2E psionics?" and push more at 3.5E or 4E psionics

I am fine with concerting 3.x Psionics. The only reason I would suggest 2E is if you really want it to feel different than the other magic systems

 

[Aldarc]

They are new to 5e. Nobody is using them officially. Is that going to fall under this same umbrella? Will they be too much of a "new system" that they would be rejected?

Ki says "hello", with special greetings from the Way of the Shadow and Way of the Four Elements.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Ki says "hello", with special greetings from the Way of the Shadow and Way of the Four Elements.

Yep.

Ki aren't spell points though, there are differences. And the Four Elements monk sucks because it is trying to be a half-caster but aren't being given enough ki to act as a half caster

Look, I'm not saying "it is inconceivable that they could do this!" but listening to the video it sounds like they are going to focus on themes. The Abberrant Mind Sorcerer, the Goolock, ect. He stated they don't need new mechanics. So, it makes it harder to picture them doing a full caster class using a point system when no full caster using a point system exists in the game currently, and the closest we have is one of the most derided monk subclasses.

 

[Maxperson]

Yep.

Ki aren't spell points though, there are differences. And the Four Elements monk sucks because it is trying to be a half-caster but aren't being given enough ki to act as a half caster

Minor differences, which still falls under what people want. They said that people don't want ALL NEW mechanics, so partially new mechanics like one that is a variant of Ki points would qualify, and that they wanted something more like what already exists, which also allows for a Ki point variant.

The Psionic mechanic doesn't have to be identical to some existing mechanic. It only has to not be too different.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

A difference between the ki points (and sorcery points) and the DMG spell points and the Mystic's psi points is that ki is linier. People might find it easier to manage [your level] points than (e.g.) 264 points.

The difficulty, as seen in the 4E monk, is it falls behind non-linier spellcasters at high level. A possible solution would be to provide a way to refresh points at higher level.

e.g.

Level 1 You have Psi points equal to your level, refreshing after a long rest.
Level 7 meditate for 10 minutes once per long rest to refresh all your psi points.
Level 14 can now meditate once per short rest.
Level 20 can meditate as often as you like.

 

[Aldarc]

Yep.

Ki aren't spell points though, there are differences. And the Four Elements monk sucks because it is trying to be a half-caster but aren't being given enough ki to act as a half caster

Ki basically are spell points though. They just also use their spell points for other non-/quasi-magical abilities. One of the reasons why the 4E Monk sucks is because of how its Ki points conflict with other class features and with the action economy. But it still basically operates as a 1/3 caster with spell points that recharge on a short rest (e.g., see Warlock).

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I would like the ki as power source for the most of the martial maneuvers in a remake of the Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords.

I would rather new base classes with their own game mechanic, although I don't miss too much neither incarnum soulmelders nor the truenamers.

Each new class has to be as its own identity mark. Lots of players want to feel their PC is different, in the same way when some clothes becomes too popular then they are soon old-fashion.

 

[Maxperson]

A difference between the ki points (and sorcery points) and the DMG spell points and the Mystic's psi points is that ki is linier. People might find it easier to manage [your level] points than (e.g.) 264 points.

I forgot about spell points already being a 5e optional rule in the DMG. So it wouldn't even be a different rule at all for psionics to have points. Thanks for the reminder.