WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Derren]

Okay, I'm on page two of this thread so maybe this gets addressed, but did people miss the part of the article that pointed out the bigger issue was that they took 3 or 4 cultures, mixed them together, then presented them as a single unit full of stereotypes?

That is also the issue with "oriental" as I understand it, the term presents Korea, Vietnam, China, Japan, Mongolia and a few other countries I can't remember as essentially being the same place with the same culture. It is a big beige splotch over top a rich and varied group of people, and that seems to be the issue.

Asian people are probably right to get upset at seeing their culture equated wholesale with an entirely different culture, as though there was no difference between them

And yet people here happily talk about European culture and mix everything together which of course also happens in D&D books.

Also, please who are those "Asian people" you are talking about? Do you mean Koreans? Chinese? And how many of them have actually objected to Oriental Adventures?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

It took literally 30 seconds for me to find it in the Boston Public Library's website. Have a nice day.

So because you live in Boston, and your library system (with 26 libraries) has a single copy ... for in library use only and that is not on the shelves ... of the book, every person that is not so fortunate doesn't need to be considered?

 

[Chaosmancer]

While the same kind of disrespect is totally ok when directed at "white" cultures...

No

We should treat those with respect too

 

[Derren]

No

We should treat those with respect too

Then there would be no D&D anymore.

 

[Sadras]

@Todd Roybark I will likely only have the opportunity to answer tomorrow as I'm actually going to RPG in 30 minutes and its evening here. Should the thread get closed for some reason I will DM you.

 

[Reynard]

There is so much I find offensive in your post, but this "white fragility" takes the cake. Say that about any other group and you'd be moderated. And just because people disagree with your opinion about what is acceptable in our hobby doesn't make them trolls.

"White fragility" isn't a slur, it's social science jargon for the negative behavior displayed by some white people when presented with racism present in American culture and systems. It represents a desire for people to not be labeled racist based on the things they enjoy or benefited from, particularly when no one was claiming they were in fact racist. The system is racist and there are often racist undertones (or overtones) in many facets of America's "the default is straight white and male" culture. The goal of giving it terminology is being able to discuss it and see how together we can help eliminate that racism from our culture.

 

[wingsandsword]

It struck me, people really thought that Oriental Adventures was supposed to be some detailed cultural work that carefully created a nuanced and intricate fantasy world that didn't rely on any stereotypes of any kind?

Really? In D&D? We don't even get that in D&D based on European culture.

. . .to a typical American audience in the 1980's, when they wanted a game that was East-Asian themed, they were wanting something based on the popular media of the day. That would have means 1970's Kung Fu movies, Kurosawa's samurai epics, and the ninja craze of the 1980's.

A book that was a carefully constructed cultural study of East Asia and a nuanced fantasy depiction that didn't rely on any stereotypes or cultural preconceptions, that didn't focus on martial arts action and ninjas and samurai and mystics. . .would have landed with warm plop on bookshelves and never been picked up. It would have been a footnote in TSR history about being part of how Gygax was forced out of the company because his name was on it.

You think gamers were wanting a lengthy cultural treatise? They wanted (and I'm willing to bet still want) something that feels more like an action movie than a nuanced cultural study. Complaining that it's focused on honor and martial arts and mysticism when players are walking into a game thinking of samurai movies and kung fu movies is going back and trying to apply cultural standards of 2020 to a book from 1985 and whining when everyone doesn't jump onboard with the revisionist history.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I m quite bothered that no one assumes I'm down to drink mead and go raiding once they find out my Scandinavian decent. I get tired of explaining to everyone I meet that that's all I want to do.

Yeah but you're naturally good at it, because you're Scandinavian.

Wait...was that wrong to say?

 

[jasper]

It took literally 30 seconds for me to find it in the Boston Public Library's website. Have a nice day.

How many months would I have to wait on an intra library loan to get the copy sent to me?

 

[Umbran]

So because you live in Boston, and your library system (with 26 libraries) has a single copy ... for in library use only and that is not on the shelves ... of the book, every person that is not so fortunate doesn't need to be considered?

I don't think the world is going to fall apart if every single person cannot instantly have a copy of an outmoded game book from 1985 for a game that is no longer supported in their hands quickly. If that's how we handled history, we would be literally buried in items of the past, with no room for the present, much less the future.