WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

Status
Not open for further replies.

Zardnaar

Legend
Did Gollum tell this story or a kender?

:p

Gollum. He lives here and no Kender survived the Kender Genocide event. Rohans not that far away as the crow flies.

Other races call it public service.

Gollums crap to have a drink with. Keeps saying my precious and taking my beer.

Woke up sober the other day, accidentally got some blood in my alcohol stream. Damn Kender ghosts.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Oh, it would really horrible if the dark powers of the demiplane of the dread abduct your characters towards a new dark domain full of kenders.
 

moriantumr

Explorer
The conversation gets more and more interesting. :)

First, sorry for misplacing Mexico. You're absolutely right. Actually I wanted to just write "Latin America", but ended with a fancier but wrong term. Note taken.

Regarding the rest, I admit I'm a bit puzzled. I don't get the references to actual political and social situation of the country. I, honestly, don't care about it at all in this context. I'm neither trying to make an essay on real world contemporary Mexico nor writing a modern Narcos RPG setting. What I was interested in im my thought exercisa was just a pre colombian Aztec (ish) backdrop.

This has to be taken loosely. I don't wnat, or care, or even think I'm able to be remotely precise. Let's like it to the Reggia of Caserta that was the model for the palace of Naboo. It's Italian architecture put on an alien word. I still don't see anything offensive. The most outrageus thing here would be Jar-Jar Binks putting his foot in it, but that's another story...

I read the tvtropes articles, thanks for the links.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't see that much offensive material there. Trite, oversimplified, boring or unimaginative, sure. But "plain offensive"? I fail to get it. Maybe because in my mind Aztec, Maya and Inca are dead empires? Could be. The pre Colombian empires have disappeared so long ago that I can't relate to them as "real" just as I do with medieval Europe. It's a thing of the past. Surely most of the tropes there are wildly historically inaccurate, but there's a hint of truth in there. Human sacrifices were practiced, even if not that much as pulp fiction wants us to believe, and designing a mythology around Quetzalcoatl wrong? is it an issue? Are there living worshippers of the Aztec pantheon? Is it worse than the Norse Gods depiction in Marvel comics?

On top of that, I never stated that I wanted to take the "full package" of easy pre Colombian stereotypes widely used in literature. Some mythology? Maybe. Lizardfolk inhabitant? That's a bit too called out even for me. Tabaxi maybe? Depends on how much forest I want to put there, but humans or elves would fit the same. I haven't really thought about that. I also never stated nor intended that I would make it the "evil empire" of my setting. So it's not automatic that I get the human sacrifice part.

Have you read the "Ancient Grome" trope, while we're there? I'm absolutely guilty of that, by the way. Many times. The fact is that usually I need one ancient place in my game, so, why not making it mine by cherry picking the things i like from history? I could do the same with Maya/Inca/Aztec/Egypt if I wanted to, I candidly admit that.

Should I be angry of all the people using rome as the place where mad evil emperors send people to die in bloody gladiatorial combat? Many people do it and I will maybe do it if I needed the Roman like empire be the evil one in the setting.

Should I be offended at people mixing my ancestors with Greek? I know that Erakles is the correct greek name of Hercules since I was 6, but I still could enjoy the Disney movie. It's a fantasy rendition of an ancient tale. should we get angry at Westeros being a mongrel europe? At Arendelle being a generic Scandinavian setting? At Fransokyo beyng a mish mash of America and Japan? Should I get angry of all the faux Latin in Harry Potter?

These are the things that startle me. I see people that just seem to WANT to get angry for the slightest thing. Sure, our REAL world give many reasons to get angry, and racism is one of the worst. But I prefer when angriness is directed at real world issues, not fantasy literature, if there's no direct intent of offense.

You asked to be taught why they were upset with your remarks and then promptly ignored their response by stating you don’t care about parts of their explanation. Perhaps thanking them for their time and apologizing would be more appropriate than claiming that being offended doesn’t make sense because you don’t think they should be.
 

Can we all agree that no matter how bad OA may or may not be (I just think it's bad) it has one thing going for it.

No Kender. That's an improvement over some D&D books.

Of course nothing is stopping anyone from rolling up a Kender Samurai/Kensai, and getting booted from my game. :LOL:
 



Stereotypes are cognitive tools.

Any tool can be used in a harmful manner.

Usually when I see stereotype used in a discussion like this, I assume people are referring to negative or insensitive stereotypes. But I have noticed the broadness of the term can create a lot of room for equivocation in these conversations (often unintentionally) if you are not mindful of how you are using the word.
 

Danzauker

Adventurer
No. I'm saying that it's disingenuous to claim that fettucine alfredo is not Italian just because its cooking method in the United States diverged from the original Italian recipe because food adapts and changes to its surrounding cultural climes. That's natural.

Yes, you're right, food changes and adapt. Like any other cultural appropriation, given time. Halloween is not the same as it was hundreds of years ago. From a maximum of 10 years ago, due to the influence of American media, we have started to celebrate it in Italy, too (before the 90s it was pretty much known only because of the Halloween horror movies), and I'm pretty sure un some decades the customs will diverge more and more.

Espresso is, if i'm not mistaken, considered in America and elsewhere an Italian typical beverage. I dare say an "exotic" beverage. At least it used to be. Now it find it more and more common arount the globe. Yet, coffee was not invented here. We nearly don't even GROW coffee here. We took the cooking method and changed so much, even starting from the basic ingredients, that now that "recipe" is considered italian.

Not so different from the point I wanted to make with fettuccine Alfredo. Mr. alfredo might as well have been an Italian cook, but the plate how it is known now has been appropriated and basically reinvented in America. You will NOT find fettuccine Alfredo in ANY restaurant in Italy (if you do, be sure it's a tourist trap). You'll even be hard pressed to find anyone that knows WHAT it is, unless he's lived or traveled to America or has a great American pop culture. We simply don't do that here.

@Dire Bare posted a link in the OP. If you follow that link, there are further links to examples that Kwan and others have posted. It's not my place for me to invalidate the harm that others confess and chastise them for professing them, but, rather, to listen sympathetically.

I followed the link, but it links to 13 podcast 2h long on average. Sorry but, no, I won't listen to them. If there's a condensed transcript of the series somewhere, I'd gladly read it.
 


Danzauker

Adventurer
You asked to be taught why they were upset with your remarks and then promptly ignored their response by stating you don’t care about parts of their explanation. Perhaps thanking them for their time and apologizing would be more appropriate than claiming that being offended doesn’t make sense because you don’t think they should be.

I asked to tell me why he was upset, but i never said I had to agree with his opinion. I can have my opinion, too. I think that is written nowhere that a discussion may not end with each part standing on their positions, and end in good terms even if the argumentation is heated.

Nevertheless I found his opinion interesting and informative and I read it with interest, and I'll be glad to continue, if he'd like. and I thank him, of course for answering.

I'm really sorry if that didn't come through my post.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.
Remove ads

Top