WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Coroc]

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So, no, not all stereotypes are bad, nor is all use of stereotypes bad. "I like Cajun food," is a perfectly acceptable thing to say.
...

Being old fashioned I try to learn: would it be also acceptable to say "I hate sushi " (At least I really do not like it, hate is maybe a to strong word, but for this question assume that I hate it for whatever reason)?

 

[Coroc]

Also, why the heck is the asian-ish culture always to the east and the vikingish culture always to the north!? Have a little creativity developers!

And why is the north specifically always called out as frozen? Because I can't think of ANY campaign worlds that are officially supposed to just have one hemisphere and no south pole.

I cannot help you with that one, but also in a lot of fantasy books as well as in FR and War of the lance Krynn the good people are in the west and the evil folk in the east.

And lo and behold Tolkien did it

 

[Coroc]

Can we all agree that no matter how bad OA may or may not be (I just think it's bad) it has one thing going for it.

No Kender. That's an improvement over some D&D books.

Be inclusive Krynn w/o Kender is boooorrrring

You never did play DSA with one of your companions playing a jester? A Kender is harmless versus a DSA Jester.

Imagine you being a Knight want to reach for your trusted blade because combat is about to take place, but you find the table leg attached to your sword belt, the one that the jester usually takes as his "weapon"

 

[Zardnaar]

Be inclusive Krynn w/o Kender is boooorrrring

You never did play DSA with one of your companions playing a jester? A Kender is harmless versus a DSA Jester.

Imagine you being a Knight want to reach for your trusted blade because combat is about to take place, but you find the table leg attached to your sword belt, the one that the jester usually takes as his "weapon"

No jesters also banned. Still more iconic than warlord (banned that edition).

Kender got banned twice. Krynn got launched out of a trebuchet. It hit Grewhawk, bounced off FR reduced to a bloody pull and landed on Athas. There is got eaten by a kank named Jeff.

Jeff likes oranges from Balic and soothing music from a bard. Oops The Dragon just ate Jeff nevermind.

True story of Kender extinction event in my universe. Honest.

 

[Danzauker]

I know you don't intend to, but in here you inadvertedly pushed a hot button issue. Never tell a Mexican that Mexico is in South or Centro America, this is not only an annoyingly common mistake -México is in continental North America-, but has been commonly used in a derogatory way in the past. If you want to talk of Mexico, Colombia, Argentina, Peru, etc, in a generic way, use Latinoamerica or Hispanoamerica -If you don't want to lump Brazil with the rest-.



It is an unfortunate result of a lot of American media not caring about the distinction between us being different peoples. It erases our cultural differences and lumps us together into an incoherent mess. It is extremely patronizing -and dehumanizing-. This mish-mash of yours might not have been ever be made into an RPG setting, but the essence of it has been done to death. And you wanted to be endearing and spoke in jest, but this is very much a hard to swallow reminder of a lot of past -and even current- grievances. Also this is one of the few representations Mexico ever gets in media - the others are with migrants in subservient positions, Mexico as an exotic distant land ripe for white colonizers, and Mexico as a druglord thorn backwater country -and possibly ripe for a white savior-. None of them are positive -or even flattering-, and many of them are also mixed with this pernicious hybridization representation.

If you have time and don't care for ruining your life, google tvropes: Spexico and tvtropes: Mayincatec. All media listed under these tropes is very insensitive at best and plain offensive at worst. Compare "Road to el Dorado" with Pilli-Adventure and you'll notice a sea of difference. (Disclaimer, Pilli-Adventure still gets a lot of things wrong, but it is an example of Mexican representation by an actual Mexican)

The conversation gets more and more interesting.

First, sorry for misplacing Mexico. You're absolutely right. Actually I wanted to just write "Latin America", but ended with a fancier but wrong term. Note taken.

Regarding the rest, I admit I'm a bit puzzled. I don't get the references to actual political and social situation of the country. I, honestly, don't care about it at all in this context. I'm neither trying to make an essay on real world contemporary Mexico nor writing a modern Narcos RPG setting. What I was interested in im my thought exercisa was just a pre colombian Aztec (ish) backdrop.

This has to be taken loosely. I don't wnat, or care, or even think I'm able to be remotely precise. Let's like it to the Reggia of Caserta that was the model for the palace of Naboo. It's Italian architecture put on an alien word. I still don't see anything offensive. The most outrageus thing here would be Jar-Jar Binks putting his foot in it, but that's another story...

I read the tvtropes articles, thanks for the links.

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I didn't see that much offensive material there. Trite, oversimplified, boring or unimaginative, sure. But "plain offensive"? I fail to get it. Maybe because in my mind Aztec, Maya and Inca are dead empires? Could be. The pre Colombian empires have disappeared so long ago that I can't relate to them as "real" just as I do with medieval Europe. It's a thing of the past. Surely most of the tropes there are wildly historically inaccurate, but there's a hint of truth in there. Human sacrifices were practiced, even if not that much as pulp fiction wants us to believe, and designing a mythology around Quetzalcoatl wrong? is it an issue? Are there living worshippers of the Aztec pantheon? Is it worse than the Norse Gods depiction in Marvel comics?

On top of that, I never stated that I wanted to take the "full package" of easy pre Colombian stereotypes widely used in literature. Some mythology? Maybe. Lizardfolk inhabitant? That's a bit too called out even for me. Tabaxi maybe? Depends on how much forest I want to put there, but humans or elves would fit the same. I haven't really thought about that. I also never stated nor intended that I would make it the "evil empire" of my setting. So it's not automatic that I get the human sacrifice part.

Have you read the "Ancient Grome" trope, while we're there? I'm absolutely guilty of that, by the way. Many times. The fact is that usually I need one ancient place in my game, so, why not making it mine by cherry picking the things i like from history? I could do the same with Maya/Inca/Aztec/Egypt if I wanted to, I candidly admit that.

Should I be angry of all the people using rome as the place where mad evil emperors send people to die in bloody gladiatorial combat? Many people do it and I will maybe do it if I needed the Roman like empire be the evil one in the setting.

Should I be offended at people mixing my ancestors with Greek? I know that Erakles is the correct greek name of Hercules since I was 6, but I still could enjoy the Disney movie. It's a fantasy rendition of an ancient tale. should we get angry at Westeros being a mongrel europe? At Arendelle being a generic Scandinavian setting? At Fransokyo beyng a mish mash of America and Japan? Should I get angry of all the faux Latin in Harry Potter?

These are the things that startle me. I see people that just seem to WANT to get angry for the slightest thing. Sure, our REAL world give many reasons to get angry, and racism is one of the worst. But I prefer when angriness is directed at real world issues, not fantasy literature, if there's no direct intent of offense.

 

[Aldarc]

I cannot help you with that one, but also in a lot of fantasy books as well as in FR and War of the lance Krynn the good people are in the west and the evil folk in the east.

And lo and behold Tolkien did it

One nice thing about Dragonlance is that the main continent is in the southern hemisphere, which is already a huge departure from the bulk of northern-hemisphere based fictional settings.

 

[Zardnaar]

One nice thing about Dragonlance is that the main continent is in the southern hemisphere, which is already a huge departure from the bulk of northern-hemisphere based fictional settings.

I live in the southern hemisphere. It's cold, the water flushes down the toilet the wrong way and the D&D books are upside down.

 

[Danzauker]

Recently we have been discussing halfling mafia, Italian cuisine, a possible Aztec setting and how the Strawman from the Wizard of Oz is more popular character than Dorothy.

I find upsetting that I'm guilty of at least 3 of these arguments...

 

[Danzauker]

I would very much like to buy that book

Believe it or not, but i was close to have them in a setting once.

Not literally Italian. They were more or less the analog of feudal Japan, with Japanese names and culture and samurai and ninja and things. oh, and I placed them West, BTW.

But I planned a pseudo Italian medieval/renaissance country next to them. Because of proximity and cultural exchange, they ended being the inventors of monastic martial arts and it was full of small monasteries in the mountains with Benedectine monks and nuns flying kicks (that I lifted from the BECMI Master rulebook).

Of course all of this was based on my extensive knowledge of anime and manga only, so if any inaccurate portrayal is there (and there are) blame Japanese authors.

So I basically split the thing in two. Halfing Naruto on one side and Italian Fist of the North Star on the other.

 

[Coroc]

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True story of Kender extinction event in my universe. Honest.

Did Gollum tell this story or a kender?