Paul Farquhar
Legend
There is always something available to throw, and it is improvisation that makes the game interesting.
D&D 5E (2014) Worst Classes Level 1.
- Thread starter Zardnaar
- Start date
Paul Farquhar
Legend
A DM who metagames like that is a bad DM. Gobins can't know that if the barbarian can't see them for a round she will stop raging. Monsters should be blind to game mechanics.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Or the DM could narrate the goblins are terrified of the barbarian when they see the rage emerge (his anger, yelling, or steely-eyed cold-killer demeanor, etc.) and all hide to protect themselves (especially if he has been raging for a round or more and already killed some of them).
Even if they do this, nothing stops the barbarian from attacking anything around him (a tree, crushing a rock with a hammer, etc), cutting himself for 2 points of damage (reduced to 1 due to raging), etc. to keep the rage going.
So, as long as it fits the narrative of the encounter, the DM having all the goblins hide isn't a bad thing IMO. Just because you don't like how an encounter plays out, doesn't mean the DM is "bad" or "ignoble." After all, players use knowledge of mechanics all the time to their advantage (oh, this creature is resistant to that and you want to use silver or magic weapons against "this", etc.).
Paul Farquhar
Legend
Goblins hiding because they are frigtned is fine. Having them stop being frightened one round later is metagaming.
Trees and rocks aren't hostile creatures, so attacking them doesn't count as per RAW.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
Why is it metagaming? This is narration--the DM describes that the barbarian's shoulders slump slightly and his breathing relaxes, etc. And again, players metagame all the time so shouldn't complain when the DM has monsters act to their advantage.
True, trees and rocks don't work, but you get the point. A single point of damage, say from a burning torch, is all it takes to keep rage going.
Paul Farquhar
Legend
The DM doesn't get to narrate the actions of a player character.
There is no rule that says "Rage" has any sort of visual effect. Without metagame knowledge there is no way goblins could tell if a character is raging or not (or even know their class was "barbarian").
No, players are not allowed to metagame. They can only know what their characters know. Part of the DM's job is stopping players from metagaming.
DND_Reborn
The High Aldwin
There is no rule that says "Rage" doesn't have visual effect, either, so that is a moot argument.
And the goblins can know whatever the DM decides they know (maybe this tribe has encountered raging barbarians before and are wary), just as the characters know what they know. By using the knowledge the characters know the players are metagaming, after all, how do the players determine it? By asking the DM and maybe making an Intelligence check. But why would they want to make one? Because they players know something and want to see if their characters know it. In the same light, the DM could have the goblins make an Intelligence or Wisdom check to see if the goblins know/ understand about "rage".
Finally, who decides what a "character knows"? Proficiency is not required to make ability checks for Intelligence or Wisdom or whatever.
But you should know that a lot of players aren't going to consider a DM "bad" for having goblins cower and such when encountering a raging barbarian.
At any rate, we aren't going to agree on this and I don't want to threadjack this future.
Todd Roybark
Hero
Essentially ending the encounter by having the goblins flee, or cower, or surrender is fine.
Having the goblins respond with advanced tactics tailored to take advantage of a very specific short circuit to the rage ability requires some in game justification, in my opinion.
Hardened goblin mercenaries that have fought in many wars over the years, could plausibly know the tactic. Others, probably should not.
Sorcerers Apprentice
Hero
Goblins can hide as a bonus action so they're going to be hiding every turn in combat if they can whether or not there's a barbarian present. If every one of them beats the barbarian's passive perception then that's just bad luck for the player.
Now, if the DM deliberately avoids targeting the barbarian so that he doesn't take any damage that would let him maintain rage, that's unfair metagaming IMO.
Now, if the DM deliberately avoids targeting the barbarian so that he doesn't take any damage that would let him maintain rage, that's unfair metagaming IMO.
Todd Roybark
Hero
Agreed, however, the goblins, I think are more likely to use their bonus action to Disengage first then hide, once out of sight. Can terrain make hiding easier...absolutely.
If Bruce Banner turns into the Hulk, and 20 goblins run away and hide, I would call that a resource efficient resolution to an encounter.
It might not be "Hulk Smash", but it worked for the moment.
If Bruce Banner turns into the Hulk, and 20 goblins run away and hide, I would call that a resource efficient resolution to an encounter.
It might not be "Hulk Smash", but it worked for the moment.
