WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Snarf Zagyg]

I don't care what you believe

So we are done.

Forum-splain OA to other people with your insults, since you "obviously" know everything about it.

 

[Azzy]

So we are done.

Forum-splain OA to other people, since you "obviously" know everything about it.

Okay, you go on the attack and attempt to dismiss my experience and then accuse me of "forum-plain"ing OA to others when you just told me that my experiences and opinions about OA were wrong. Dude, that's whacked.

 

[Azzy]

I don't think that anyone here would deny that it had some problems - and I think we could mostly agree on what those problems are - but I absolutely loved 1e Oriental Adventures - however clumsy it appears today. It was a breath of fresh air.

Agreed, I loved it when I got it as a teenager. It help peke my interest in Japanese history. Of course at the time I had no clue that it was problematic.

 

[MGibster]

No. I do not believe in those either. I only believe in individuals who see themselves as part of those (non-existent) communities.

Sometimes people have such a radically different set of ideas from the norm that it is difficult to engage them in meaningful conversation on the subject. If we can't agree on something as fundamentally basic as the existence of Hispanic, African American, or even Asian communities within the United States there's no starting point for conversation. It's like trying to talk about the evolution of whales to someone who thinks the earth is 6,000 years old. The two parties are so far apart there's no going forward.

 

[Cadence]

How much less problematic would the original OA be viewed today if it had been published under a title like "Kara-Tur - More from the World of Greyhawk" (or FR), or if it came out six months later as "Unearthed Arcana II' . And if the blurbs had just been about adding more material to D&D, instead of showing us the exotic or capturing part of the real world

It doesn't get rid of any problematic material in it - but how much would changing how it was framed push it back to the level of the 1e PhB monk or pantheons in Deities and Demigods?

 

[MGibster]

I've never seen Birth if a Nation, don't particularly want to. But I might one day for whatever reason.

I watched it for one of my American culture courses and I can confirm that it is extremely racist. It's also a landmark film in that it established some basic filming techniques that are still in use today. But what really got me was just how boring it was. Seriously, it's more than two hours long and I can't tell you what was worse; the racism or the boredom?

 

[Dire Bare]

How much less problematic would the original OA be viewed today if it had been published under a title like "Kara-Tur - More from the World of Greyhawk" (or FR), or if it came out six months later as "Unearthed Arcana II' . And if the blurbs had just been about adding more material to D&D, instead of showing us the exotic or capturing part of the real world

It doesn't get rid of any problematic material in it - but how much would changing how it was framed push it back to the level of the 1e PhB monk or pantheons in Deities and Demigods?

It would make it no less problematic. But it would probably make it less visible and we might not be talking about it today. It's not just about the word "oriental", but having that word in the title is a pretty hefty signifier that the product is a problem.

 

[MGibster]

Agreed, I loved it when I got it as a teenager. It help peke my interest in Japanese history. Of course at the time I had no clue that it was problematic.

But what isn't problematic? Apparently there are some people who find the Barbarian class in 5th edition, a core class for at least twenty years now, to be problematic. Is there any point where you just shrug your shoulders and say, "I understand you find it problematic but I don't and have any desire to change it?"

 

[Azzy]

But what isn't problematic? Apparently there are some people who find the Barbarian class in 5th edition, a core class for at least twenty years now, to be problematic. Is there any point where you just shrug your shoulders and say, "I understand you find it problematic but I don't and have any desire to change it?"

I think most of us can agree that chocolate is not problematic. At least for humans... it's very problematic for doggos and kittehs.

I'm sure there is such a point, I guess. I suppose, however, that where it lies will vary widely based on the subject and the person. It's good, however, that not all complaints are without merit. Some, sure, but given the US's track record on racism and other forms of bigotry, I think it's a good idea to take those that have been marginalized seriously and enter a conversation with them about how to do things better rather than just ignoring them like we have in the past.

 

[Cadence]

It would make it no less problematic. But it would probably make it less visible and we might not be talking about it today. It's not just about the word "oriental", but having that word in the title is a pretty hefty signifier that the product is a problem.

Thank you. I was just trying to gauge how much of it was was situating it as being reflective of "an exotic part the real world" (as opposed to making it "just more pastiche like we did in the PhB". I haven't actually read a copy for decades, but would believe some of the inside is troubling.