WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

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Derren

Hero
And WotC needs to do better in future products. Not just better than "Oriental Adventures", but better than the current 5E products as well.

Which basically means, no more Asian of African inspired content ever. When you set the bar so high that it becomes impossible to do a "respectful" representation of that cultures its better and much easier to ignore them entirely.
 

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Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
Which basically means, no more Asian of African inspired content ever. When you set the bar so high that it becomes impossible to do a "respectful" representation of that cultures its better and much easier to ignore them entirely.
I don't see how this follows from the need to avoid stereotypical representations. That's not really that high a bar to clear.
 

Derren

Hero
I don't see how this follows from the need to avoid stereotypical representations. That's not really that high a bar to clear.
It actually is when your product is a light hearted fantasy rpg full of stereotypes. No matter how respectful you make it, people will complain because the expectation of what respectful is supposed to mean to them has been set so high that it is unachievable and they will go through everything you publish with a comb to find anything disrespectful, no matter how far fetched (Chopsticks! Rice!). So the best course of action is to avoid this topic entirely.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
It actually is when your product is a light hearted fantasy rpg full of stereotypes. No matter how respectful you make it, people will complain because the expectation of what respectful is supposed to mean to them has been set so high that it is unachievable. So the best course of action is to avoid this topic entirely.
You don't need stereotypes to produce a light-hearted RPG. Not in any way, shape, or form. Archetypes? Sure, but those can be handled respectfully. Stereotypes play on unwarranted or ignorant generalizations. The goal is respectful use of other cultures, not to produce a product no one will complain about. The latter is impossible anyway, and some people just like to find things to be offended about. Those people aren't important.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
You don't need stereotypes to produce a light-hearted RPG. Not in any way, shape, or form. Archetypes? Sure, but those can be handled respectfully. Stereotypes play on unwarranted or ignorant generalizations. The goal is respectful use of other cultures, not to produce a product no one will complain about. The latter is impossible anyway, and some people just like to find things to be offended about. Those people aren't important.

There's another basic problem. People are treating other cultures as monolithic.

There are those in those cultures who believe their culture should not be used for commercial purposes full stop.
 

Fenris-77

Small God of the Dozens
Supporter
There are those in those cultures who believe their culture should not be used for commercial purposes full stop.
Those people are bound to be disappointed then, aren't they? That would also include, for example, academic study, or photography, just to pick two. Wacky. Demanding respectful treatment is one thing, a good thing, but an individual or small group trying to claim legal ownership of something like 'culture' is whistling in the wind.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
Those people are bound to be disappointed then, aren't they? That would also include, for example, academic study, or photography, just to pick two. Wacky. Demanding respectful treatment is one thing, a good thing, but an individual or small group trying to claim legal ownership of something like 'culture' is whistling in the wind.

Just saying some Maori here feel that way for example.

The All Blacks do the Haka and international people like it but there's more than one haka.

At some point you have to draw a line and ignore people.

Another example is some if the stone and bone carving here. In their culture your not supposed to buy it for yourself. They don't mind if you have it but it's supposed to be a gift.

For example I could go to a Maori craftsman and buy a traditional hand carved bone pendant inlaid with shells.

I can send that as a gift to whoever I like. But I'm not supposed to buy it for myself.

And then you have different cultural values. For example women aren't supposed to do the Haka or speak on some maraes (meeting house).

This caused a problem when you have a female prime minister. Some tribes allow her to speak, other tribes allow her to speak as her rank over rides her gender while other tribes don't allow her to speak.

And then you have some dumb American company come blundering in thinking they're being all diverse etc and violating cultural norms by commercialising their culture.
 


MGibster

Legend
There are those in those cultures who believe their culture should not be used for commercial purposes full stop.

As far as samurai and Kung-fu masters are concerned, the S.S. Commercial set sail many decades ago and has circumnavigated the globe countless times.
 


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