WotC Older D&D Books on DMs Guild Now Have A Disclaimer

If you go to any of the older WotC products on the Dungeon Master's Guild, they now have a new disclaimer very similar to that currently found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons.

We recognize that some of the legacy content available on this website, does not reflect the values of the Dungeon & Dragons franchise today. Some older content may reflect ethnic, racial and gender prejudice that were commonplace in American society at that time. These depictions were wrong then and are wrong today. This content is presented as it was originally created, because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed. Dungeons & Dragons teaches that diversity is a strength, and we strive to make our D&D products as welcoming and inclusive as possible. This part of our work will never end.

The wording is very similar to that found at the start of Looney Tunes cartoons.

Edit: Wizards has put out a statement on Twitter (click through to the full thread)

 

[dalisprime]

Just to drill down a bit further here. What do you mean by problematic. And, no, I'm not being pedantic here. Having one or two problems doesn't make the whole setting problematic. It just means that we need to patch up one or two problems. I don't find Forgotten Realms to be terribly problematic and, given its popularity, I'd say that most people don't. Could it be better? Probably. FR is freaking enormous and has writing that stretches back decades by dozens of writers. I'm absolutely sure I could find something in FR if I wanted to go hunting for it

I mean, you don't have to go digging that deep. Calimshan rides on the same themes zakhara does and that is seen as problematic. Chult has already been identified as such seeing the errata entries (although frankly I don't get what is wrong with the term exotic - i have nothing but positive connotations with the word and have never seen or heard it used in a negative or hurtful context). You then have the Shoon from the Dragon Coast which are the direct link to kara-tur and the whole theme of ongoing war between Mulhorand and Unther which draws on real life conflicts since Mulhorandi are literal Egyptians.

Just off the top of my head.

 

[FrogReaver]

The problem happens because the other "humanoids" are defacto little more than a human in a costume. So any tropes for the Nonhuman races might have unfortunate tropes relating to reallife ethnic groups.

What happens if one chooses to view them as more than a human in a costume?

 

[reelo]

You don't see how removing racist elements from a game does anything to negate racial stereotypes?

Seriously?

I was specifically talking about OA. Going forward? Yes, I'm all for that, although with care, as I don't agree with some of the tropes being racial stereotypes.

Again, I have to side with Mercurius. Let WotC make changes as they see fit to forthcoming releases, as indeed they should. But I don't see how a 35 year old book is relevant to 5E. It's a niche product. A disclaimer is enough.

How come HP Lovecraft's books are still sold? Has anyone ever taken a look at them? Blatantly racist! They're still sold....

 

[Haldrik]

What happens if one chooses to view them as more than a human in a costume?

It seems to me.

Because D&D is a roleplaying game, a player needs to be able to relate to their character in order to roleplay. The character has to make sense in some meaningful way.

Thus the moment a player relates, the character becomes "human" enough.

For similar reasons, when designers create tropes for a nonhuman humanoid that seem to make sense, it is defacto a human adapting to a different environment. The nonhuman races come with tropes that are recognizably reallife human tropes (such as hobgoblins with Japanese military gear), and can come across as an insult, or worse.

Removing alignment from every humanoid helps alot. Concerns remain concerning descriptions of low Intelligence, descriptions of aboriginal tribes as if "savage", and so on.

 

[FrogReaver]

It seems to me.

Because D&D is a roleplaying game, a player needs to be able to relate to their character in order to roleplay. The character has to make sense in some meaningful way.

Thus the moment a player relates, the character becomes "human" enough.

For similar reasons, when designers create tropes for a nonhuman humanoid that seem to make sense, it is defacto a human adapting to a different environment. The nonhuman races come with tropes that are recognizably reallife human tropes (such as hobgoblins with Japanese military gear), and can come across as an insult, or worse.

Removing alignment from every humanoid helps alot. Concerns remain concerning low Intelligence, descriptions of aboriginal tribes as if "savage", and so on.

It seems to me.

When one holds nonhuman races as actually not human then all these problems go away. So why insist on the interpretation that hurts when there is a different interpretation that doesn't?

 

[Raduin711]

How come HP Lovecraft's books are still sold? Has anyone ever taken a look at them? Blatantly racist! They're still sold....

...and when they are sold they often have forwards in the first few pages.

 

[reelo]

Because D&D is a roleplaying game, a player needs to be able to relate to their character in order to roleplay. The character has to make sense in some meaningful way.

It seems to me that no matter what, if every nonhuman is just a "human in a costume", be they elf, dwarf, halfling, gnome, or orc, the most "fair" way to solve this problem is to remove ALL sentient nonhuman PC races as player options, if not from the game itself.

 

[dalisprime]

What Games With Asian Settings Get Wrong – and Why They're Important Anyway

Oriental Adventure-style games are ahistorical to the point of hilarity, but there's something seductive about them anyway.

gnomestew.com

An interesting take on OA that echoes the issue of it being a mish mash of stereotypes but doesn't see as much of a problem in them. Coming from a Chinese (born though seemingly not raised) person no less.
This sort of undermines the narrative of it being offensive to all Asians. Some recognise the origins of those tropes as derivative and don't mind them as much it appears.
Kwan outright blocked me for saying that OA isn't meant to be taken as true representation of Asian culture but is a derivative based on movies. I wonder if he'd block the writer for her take on it all.

 

[reelo]

...and when they are sold they often have forwards in the first few pages.

If a disclaimer is enough for HPL, who is still sold, certainly a disclaimer is enough for a niche product of a niche hobby.

 

[Haldrik]

How come HP Lovecraft's books are still sold? Has anyone ever taken a look at them? Blatantly racist! They're still sold....

I was unaware that Lovecraft was a N*zi sympathizer that propagated antihuman hatespeech. I will never buy an other product relating to him ever again, or ever speak well of him again.

Now all of the Chthulu tropes in D&D today are highly on my radar.

The last thing I want is to play a Neo-N*zi game. God forbid.

At the same time, history is what it was, and we must be accurate about it. Even tho a publisher might want to make such antihuman hatespeech available for historical research purposes, the same publisher can also alert the researcher to notable problematics.

Whether a gaming company like WotC should be selling hatespeech is a separate question. The answer is, No! To do so is bad for public relations and alarms reallife gamers.

With regard to the book, Oriental Adventures. In my opinion, if there is enough consensus among East-Asian Americans who find the book to be a turn-off, then stop selling it. Because WotC wants more gamers who are East-Asian Americans. As far as I can tell, East-Asian American gamers are highly diverse, and individuals have expressed different views. Several just want the OA to stop. While others see it as one of the only books that even have East-Asian names, and want it to remain in the history of D&D.

Whatever the overall consensus is among East Asian Americans, that is what WotC must cater to if there is to be any East-Asian content.