D&D 5E Monks Suck

[Undrave]

and he can avoid rows of minions by walking on the walls.

At lv 9.

It also gets Evasion later than the Rogue.

I think another problem with the monk is that it's 'schtick' takes too long to settle in. It all comes online far later than other base classes.

 

[FrogReaver]

In a feat based game the problem with monks is that they don’t have damage boosting feats.

In a featless game there is no problem with monks.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It also gets Evasion later than the Rogue.

Both Monks and Rogues get evasion at level 7. FYI.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

To be fair, monks are excellent at going Nova against a single opponent. It's often brought up as a counter argument, but massively depends on the style of encounters used by your DM.

Huh, with 2 attacks at 1st level, the option of 3 attacks using Ki at 2nd level, and 3-4 attacks at 5th level, I have found my Open Hand and Kensei monks to be great at mook destruction. YMMV of course.

I have yet to play a monk past 9th level though (my last monk died in Tomb of A because I, the player, failed my wisdom check and I got fed up with all the traps and puzzles and my monk basically found the "rocks fall you die" sort of trap...)

 

[Undrave]

So what you have is a class that is sui generis. It isn't like any of the other classes, and it doesn't fit into any neat category. A lot of the abilities don't easily "math out" for optimization purposes- like being able to avoid falling damage, or spells, or missile weapons, or the crazy mobility that they have. Some high-level abilities are just insanely good, but rarely taked about (proficiency bonus on ALL ABILITIES?).

There's just a lot of weird buttons to push, and most people aren't used to pushing them. It's not a class for everyone, but for some people, it's really enjoyable.

That's a good point. Monks are WEIRD compared to other class because they're trying to be too many Kung Fu movies at once.

To be fair, monks are excellent at going Nova against a single opponent. It's often brought up as a counter argument, but massively depends on the style of encounters used by your DM.

It also leaves them in the middle of enemy camp with all their Ki points spent. It opens them up to retaliation depending on the encounter. I don't feel confident in my d8 HP to do that most of the time.

MAD = Most Awesome Dude/ette?
MAD = Merry Avengers of Death?
MAD = Many Arms of Delight?

Multiple Ability Dependant

 

[Undrave]

Both Monks and Rogues get evasion at level 7. FYI.

I could swear it was later... my bad.

 

[Undrave]

This IME doesn't make them squishier than rogues, and Patient Defence is surprisingly useful if you're in the thick of it.

Rogues can disengage all day with their Cunning Action at level 2. Patient Defence is limited by your low Ki, and it lowers your damage meaning the creatures around you stick around longer. It's kind of a lousy deal IMO.

 

[Eyes of Nine]

Multiple Ability Dependant

Ah, got it. Yes, as someone up thread said, the dependence on DEX/WIS is sort of terrible. And often CON too as you note the d8 HitDice is not great. That's why my monk has 8 STR, and 10 in both INT and CHA.

 

[Asisreo]

1- They are too frail. they have d8s for HD, which is very low for someone meant to wade into battle without armour. This plays into problem 2.

Hit Dice are important, but being 22hp behind a max level fighter as a max level monk isn't quite that debilitating.

2- They are too MAD. You need DEX and WIS to have a decent AC to avoid taking too much damage on your low HP and probably CON to be more solid. They need WIS to make use of their best feature (Stunning Strike). Obviously you can avoid damage by disengaging or dodging using your Ki but...

It's the same for spellcasters, though. Even moreso since their spellcasting ability doesn't help with their AC at all.

3- Your DPS is too linked to using your Bonus Action to attack and your contribution in combat relies too much on using your very few Ki points on Flurry of Blows and Stunning Strike. You base damage is terrible and doesn't keep up that well unless you can make three attacks a round or more. The moment you try to protect yourself your DPS goes down. Speaking of Stunning Strike...

A monk really isn't a DPS class, in the slightest. Comparing a monk's DPS and saying the class is bad for it is like comparing a bard's damage capabilities to a sorcerer, you'd be correct but ultimately missing the point.

4- Stunning Strike is amazing on paper but in practice its only useful to burn through the Legendary Resistance of boss monsters. In most circumstance you're better off using Flurry of Blows rather than Stunning Strike. The best target to stuns are usually beefy and have make the save more easily, and anything that can't make the save will usually go down to a good pummelling.

I don't know why someone would keep trying to flurry of blows after their first 4 tries didn't connect. After that, it just isn't worth the Ki investment.

5- They don't have good feats to help them get more interesting. Mobile is the best for them, but it's essentially a feat tax to allow them to weave in and out of battle safely like they should be able to from the stat. You don't even WANT to take feat until you max both DEX and WIS because you badly need the benefit of those stat bumps to keep you useful. This means you don't get fun, build-defining, feats like Polearm Mastery or even fluffier stuff like Actor.

Mage slayer? Martial Adept? Defensive Duelist? Lucky? Plenty of feats to choose from. But mobile isn't needed to be a combat weaver. Their base movement already gets increased by a flat amount and they can take the dash action to double that.

And finally:

6- They don't get Expertise. A Monk has great stats for skill checks and access to good skills. They can easily replace a Rogue in terms of skill coverage, but unlike the Rogue or Bard they don't get Expertise, and unlike the Ranger they don't get abilities that overcome exploration challenges. Shadow Monks at least get the benefit of being able to use 'Pass Without Trace' to get insanely high Stealth Rolls, but most of the other Monk class are not so lucky.

Here, does this cover what the video says @Mistwell or is there different points??

I think it's a good trade-off for what the class has to offer. I disagree the the elemonk is as bad as people want to tell you, since they literally have a solution to the "melee characters suck at flying enemies" problem.

 

[Guest 6801328]

That video is easy to rebut without even watching it:

I have more fun playing monks than any other class. Q.E.F.D., sukkahz.