D&D 5E Monks Suck

[Cap'n Kobold]

If we are using feats, I can beat the monk damage at those levels with any class. (overall)

Any class, or specific builds of any class?

If you wanted to build a "monk" (as in similar/better mechanical capabilities), what sort of class/build would be best to use do you think?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's hit and RUN, to fade you gotta lose the enemy, at least in that they have to guess where you are. Shadow gets real good at it at 11th though still lacks a bonus action hide to go with their action invisible, meaning they're more inflicting disadvantage than actually losing people (RAW anyway).

The monk easily gets out of range of most NPCs, into the backfield, and then back in and out of the melee next turn.

that mostly benefits everyone but them, and keeps having to be used repeatedly,

It lasts until the end of their next turn, so it benefits them plenty, and lasts long enough that monks frequently turn big non-legendary enemies into “trash mobs“.

The Monk's niche is on demand flexibility which is just not a high priority in the minds of most players.

They’re not even that low ranked in popularity or usage, so this seems unlikely to me.

 

[Todd Roybark]

It has nothing to do with thrill, it's just a fixed number that can be used to compare to any build. Including a warlock build. It's not intended to be something to play - just what can be achieved with no effort.

That is exactly the point, no other class fires a Force Damage Heavy Crossbow that does not use ammunition...for "free".

The effectiveness of Hex + EB+EB Invocations has the practical effect of crowding out other action combinations for the Warlock due to basic cost benefit analysis.

The DPS analysis emphasizes individual damage output but ignores a D&D truism:
D&D is a cooperative game, and the group that has the most synergy between their actions tends to get the "best" results.

Whom is generally better at exploiting a foe debilitated by the Hold Person spell, a Fighter or a Monk?
The Monk clearly. The Fighter can use their, likely, only action surge.
The monk can Flurry, the monk can just use the Martial Arts bonus, the monk can even keep the target controlled with Stunning Fist if the save against Hold Person is made.

Factors like this are not given consideration by monk class detractors.
Indeed, it strikes me that monk detractors have such a myopic view of how the game is played, that these considerations do not even occur to them.

The Monk gets a much larger pool of Ki points then the number of uses a Fighter has of Second Wind or Healing Surges....yet the hypotheticals people reference seem to be the Fighter can use these powers all the time.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Let’s do this! Can you do it without variant human? If so let’s start comparing with rogue.

Already done. Here's a straight class rogue that beats the monk numbers levels 1-10 (all of them) comparing to the same baseline I do in my Monk vid. This character is a wood-elf.

 

[Treantmonklvl20]

Should mention - the green highlights are what this character is using at each level, though as this comparison shows, the rogue actually has multiple means to beat the baseline from levels 1-10, which the monk can't unless it's using FoB. These numbers assume no resource use.

 

[Micah Sweet]

The monk easily gets out of range of most NPCs, into the backfield, and then back in and out of the melee next turn.

It lasts until the end of their next turn, so it benefits them plenty, and lasts long enough that monks frequently turn big non-legendary enemies into “trash mobs“.

They’re not even that low ranked in popularity or usage, so this seems unlikely to me.

Is it good for the game to turn boss fights into curb stomps? Stunning Strike (when it works), is so effective you can't not try it, and that has to be boring as heck. Not to mention constantly stun-locking enemies is a great way to hack off your GM.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Is it good for the game to turn boss fights into curb stomps? Stunning Strike (when it works), is so effective you can't not try it, and that has to be boring as heck. Not to mention constantly stun-locking enemies is a great way to hack off your GM.

Is that your experience in play? Because it doesn’t match mine at all.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Is it good for the game to turn boss fights into curb stomps? Stunning Strike (when it works), is so effective you can't not try it, and that has to be boring as heck. Not to mention constantly stun-locking enemies is a great way to hack off your GM.

1. Monks suck. They are a terrible class that does no damage, is not effective at combat and have way too many options and limited ki.

2. Monks suck. They are a terrible class that is way too effective at boss fights, and will just anger your DM because they are OP. In addition, they are boring, because you're just going to be stun-locking everything.


Conclusion:
"Hey Johnny, why do you think Monks suck?"

"Whaddya got?"

 

[Mort]

Whom is generally better at exploiting a foe debilitated by the Hold Person spell, a Fighter or a Monk?
The Monk clearly. The Fighter can use their, likely, only action surge.
The monk can Flurry, the monk can just use the Martial Arts bonus, the monk can even keep the target controlled with Stunning Fist if the save against Hold Person is made.

I'm not so sure that true:

1. If where using the -5/+10 feats the monk will lose hands down. But as this is "controversial" lets not;
2. The BM fighter can use a maneuver or 2 to maximize damage that's going to add 2d8 to every hit (and it's never wasted as the BM can choose to apply the maneuver after the hit) - The BM gets 4 of these per short rest - that's enough.
3. The monk cannot keep up on that damage - by the time he's doing a d8 on his martial arts die the BM will be up to d10s AND have another attack to boot.
4. The fighter can't stun, but he can knock prone - maintaining advantage - assuming he needs to.

I don't think the Monk is as clearly ahead as you are saying here.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

1. Monks suck. They are a terrible class that does no damage, is not effective at combat and have way too many options and limited ki.

2. Monks suck. They are a terrible class that is way too effective at boss fights, and will just anger your DM because they are OP. In addition, they are boring, because you're just going to be stun-locking everything.

I think being one-trick pony is fair criticism. If you have one ability that is really good and everything else is kinda meh, it leads to just constantly spamming that one ability and that's really not fun gameplay.