D&D (2024) (+) New Edition Changes for Inclusivity (discuss possibilities)

[FlyingChihuahua]

He didn’t invent Cosmic Horror.

Well he introduced it to the world at large, I'd personally argue that's as important, if not more so, than inventing it.

Tangentially, I’ve never understood why people fear cosmological insignificance and amechanistic universe in general. Why should I care that the universe is incapable of caring about me? It’s a machine I live inside of. Why would it ever matter, to me, whether the universe cares about me or not?

Have you ever had the fear that the people you care about couldn't give a damn about what you think?
Apply that to a cosmic scale.

 

[Cadence]

Tangentially, I’ve never understood why people fear cosmological insignificance and amechanistic universe in general. Why should I care that the universe is incapable of caring about me? It’s a machine I live inside of. Why would it ever matter, to me, whether the universe cares about me or not?

Does it depend on having believed, or at least thought, there was something more first?

The last four pages of Watchmen issue 6 feels like they get at it some. "It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or desinty that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us." And how that plays out for two different characters.

Well, I guess the whole series deals with the big questions. "Come... dry your eyes... and let's go home."

 

[Hussar]

Forgive me for potentially moving the goal posts, but that doesn't really solve the issue I'm thinking of, which is amount of current media (and media that I especially enjoy, so this hits close for me) is inexorably tied to a huge bigot.

Sure, you can contextualize him and his stories all you want, but specific themes (the main one I'm thinking of is the theme of the universe not caring at all about you and your struggles, and how existentially terrifying that is) came from a vile person.

Personally? My solution is to let Lovecraft die. Stop mentioning him. Stop enshrining him. There are tons of other existential dread authors out there that we can use as excellent examples of tentacle horror. In other words, separate the Mythos from the Man. By and large, the Mythos stories, particularly ones told by other people, are great. Sure, us gaming geeks might know who August Derleth is, but, most people have no idea. Letting authors fade into history is pretty easy.

That way we can keep our cool horror and not have to pay homage to a vile human being.

 

[Imaculata]

It is always a bit of a touchy subject. Can you still enjoy the works of an author/artist/filmmaker when you know they did something terrible, or were a horrible racist?

I try to separate the work from the man. I can still enjoy any of Michael Jacksons songs, even though he probably was a creepy pedo. Harry Potter is still a great series of books and movies, despite the fact that Miss Rowling has recently revealed that she has some awful ideas. And I love Lovecraftian horror, despite Lovecraft being the racist that we all know he was. There are dozens of people that are like this; they made something great, but were not-so-great people.

Further more, I think it is important to remember who these people were and to critique them. It is one of the reasons I enjoy the movie Starship Troopers a lot, because author Robert A Heinlein had a lot of fascist ideas, which the movie ruthlessly takes apart. It is good to examine these works and the people who made them.

For example: I think Chaosium did a great job at honoring the origins of the mythos while distancing themselves from the creator in the introduction of newer versions of the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game. I think that is the right way to approach these things.

 

[Hussar]

It is always a bit of a touchy subject. Can you still enjoy the works of an author/artist/filmmaker when you know they did something terrible, or were a horrible racist?

I try to seperate the work from the man. I can still enjoy any of Michael Jacksons songs, even though he probably was a creepy pedo. Harry Potter is still a great series of books and movies, despite the fact that Miss Rowling has recently revealed that she has some awful ideas. And I love Lovecraftian horror, despite Lovecraft being the racist that we all know he was. There are dozens of people that are like this; they made something great, but were not-so-great people.

Agreed. And that's always a personal choice. But, again, in the specific question of should Lovecraft be included in the list of Inspirational Reading in the PHB, what do you think?

 

[Imaculata]

Agreed. And that's always a personal choice. But, again, in the specific question of should Lovecraft be included in the list of Inspirational Reading in the PHB, what do you think?

Absolutely, and for those reasons. Separate the work from the man. Lovecraft is still a huge inspiration for dozens of authors. We all know who he was, but we don't have to like the man to appreciate and be inspired by his works.

 

[Maxperson]

Agreed. And that's always a personal choice. But, again, in the specific question of should Lovecraft be included in the list of Inspirational Reading in the PHB, what do you think?

I don't mind seeing him on a list of people that D&D has drawn from, but I don't think he should be on a list called "inspirational."

 

[Hussar]

Absolutely, and for those reasons. Separate the work from the man. Lovecraft is still a huge inspiration for dozens of authors. We all know who he was, but we don't have to like the man to appreciate and be inspired by his works.

Fair enough. I find the works are a pretty racist too though. Again, as I mentioned earlier, it's my children he's talking about in Shadows of Innsmouth. If we're trying to be more inclusive in the game, maybe not including KKK fanfic in the inspirational reading is a good idea.

 

[Imaculata]

Fair enough. I find the works are a pretty racist too though. Again, as I mentioned earlier, it's my children he's talking about in Shadows of Innsmouth. If we're trying to be more inclusive in the game, maybe not including KKK fanfic in the inspirational reading is a good idea.

Same deal with Heinlein. His fascist ideas all over his books, but the books are still considered important in scifi literature.

 

[Hussar]

Same deal with Heinlein. His fascist ideas all over his books, but the books are still considered important in scifi literature.

But Heinlein isn't in Appendix E in the PHB. Lovecraft is.