Level Up (A5E) What is the vision of the high level fighter?

[CleverNickName]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant the narrative behind the tricks and tactics. Why can't they do them whenever they want? What, precisely, is there to "prepare"?

For the same reasons that the wizard can't cast any spell in his book anytime he wants. He hasn't practiced, he hasn't prepared his mind, the weapon he needs is still stowed in his backpack, he isn't ready, etc.

I'm not trying to be difficult, just clear. For example, maybe a trick like Pact Tactics?

I mean, sure, that would work. But it doesn't have to be so very different from other spellcasting classes. Like, maybe there are "slots" and "levels" for martial powers, just as they are for spells. What the wizard calls "magic missile," the fighter would call "unerring shot." He can spend a Level 1 slot to send 3 arrows toward his target, each one automatically hits and deals 1d4+1 points of piercing damage.

It could also be a number of feats that the fighter "prepares" each day. Like, on one day the fighter might prepare Crossbow Mastery and Sharpshooter....another he might opt for Heavy Armor Master and Shield Master.

Whether we go with advanced tactics borrowed from the monster manual, or just re-skinned spells and/or feats from the Player's Handbook, I think the mechanics are already in place. It just depends on how far down that rabbit hole we would want to go.

 

[CleverNickName]

Quick point of order, if I may: what is the point of all the discussion about wizards and other spell casters in a thread about fighters?

That was my fault. I mentioned the wizard as an example of how different abilities and features for the fighter could be "prepared" each day and managed like a resource. The spellcasting thing was just one example, and there are many examples to choose from. Ki points, maneuver dice, etc., etc.

 

[Minigiant]

So are like, half of all mythological figures. if we take every single "has god-blood in their lineage" individual out, we are probably left with very slim pickings.

I just was confused with people saying they want the high level fighter closer to the mundane then use Achilles, Hercules, Thor, and Samson as examples.
People claiming to want more grounded, high level fighters but using demigods and divinely chosen ones as examples.

Once your character has super stregth or limited invulnerbility, they quickly pass the "mere superhuman" point.

 

[Morrus]

Also, @Morrus said they would likely be making a monster book, or at least a monster section. So if monsters are going to be rewritten anyway, why not make p/s/b matter?

I don't believe I've mentioned that?

 

[Micah Sweet]

I don't believe I've mentioned that?

I apologize if I'm wrong about that. I could have sworn you were including threats. If not, then yeah, splitting p/s/b in a meaningful way would be very difficult.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

just the spells that is really the issue?

Just the spells, anyday of of the week, for me! The base caster classes are pretty weak, IMHO. Their spells (at high level) are a little over the top though.

And I'm fine with most of them, raising fortification in a day is a thing high level spellcasters should be able to do, becoming invincible for a time, same thing. Its really the high end of 8-9th level spells that I dont get. Level 9th spellcasting should be not-yet-biblical spells: raining meteor, becoming a high level creature, creating a black hole (Wildemount) and such could have been epic boons instead, in my opinion.

Other thing: at-will spells and adventure-oriented only spells cheapens the definition of magic for me. There's nothing magical about auto-scaling damage cantrips, they are just weapons with a different name. While you have to a dedicated fighter of high level to master your weapon, those damn cantrips can scale with you, even if you are only a practiced mage for 1 level! I'd also like more ''roleplay'' spells, even if they dont matter 90% of the time, just to show what magic is like in a pseudo-feudal world. Magic Mouth, Continual Flame and Plant Growth are good example I think.

I guess, in short, that's my problem with spells: ''if you make Magic feels mundane, and wont let mundane feels magical, there's something weird going on''.

 

[Morrus]

I apologize if I'm wrong about that. I could have sworn you were including threats. If not, then yeah, splitting p/s/b in a meaningful way would be very difficult.

It's too far ahead to say; we might and we might not! But it is important to note that your existing 5E monster books will work just fine with Level Up.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I mean, sure, that would work. But it doesn't have to be so very different from other spellcasting classes. Like, maybe there are "slots" and "levels" for martial powers, just as they are for spells. What the wizard calls "magic missile," the fighter would call "unerring shot." He can spend a Level 1 slot to send 3 arrows toward his target, each one automatically hits and deals 1d4+1 points of piercing damage.

OK, this is a solid example of what I mean.

If, somehow, the Fighter can prepare his arrows so that it enables him to fire three arrows at once and hit with them, why can't he do that all the time.

The wizard can only handle memorizing so many spells of certain spell levels as defined by his class level. But what stops the fighter for doing it every time he wants to? If all it takes is "placing his arrows in a special way in his quiver" or something, he could (at the very least) rearrange his quiver the moment he had a few seconds to prepare it.

It could also be a number of feats that the fighter "prepares" each day. Like, on one day the fighter might prepare Crossbow Mastery and Sharpshooter....another he might opt for Heavy Armor Master and Shield Master.

But again, how can he "forget it"? If he knows how to ignore cover via Sharpshooter one day, but then isn't mentally prepared or decides not to set up his bow to do it the next day?

It is simple enough in the narrative to say "he does it", but what is the reason he can't keep doing it? Wizards memorize spells and casting them (I assume) is fatiguing in some way (otherwise you could cast Magic Missile every round all day long...). Sorcerer's might be limited because of a similar drain, Warlocks might only have so much magic granted by their patron, etc.

But what is it that stops the fighter from doing such things more at will, or at least every time they have a minute to prep their gear or whatever?

 

[DND_Reborn]

That was my fault. I mentioned the wizard as an example of how different abilities and features for the fighter could be "prepared" each day and managed like a resource. The spellcasting thing was just one example, and there are many examples to choose from. Ki points, maneuver dice, etc., etc.

Thanks for the replay. No worries. I just wondered where it came from...

I guess, in short, that's my problem with spells: ''if you make Magic feels mundane, and wont let mundane feels magical, there's something weird going on''.

Yeah, magic shouldn't be used to copy the mundane IMO either. Simply things like Mend sure, but spells like Jump, not so much.

 

[tetrasodium]

we needed a golf bag of weapons to be effective/function

except that really was not the case. You had a couple different ways it affected the party

• Spotlight shifting: As a GM I could throw a monster that chipped x or xx points of damage off every attack bob did with is +5 holy avenger of awesomeness. With just a couple monsters I could thrust Alice & Dawn into the spotlight with their +1 mace of still pretty cool & force the party to rethink both their role in the current fight as well as positioning beyond "move to closest monster, attack until it dies, repeat"
• Forcing players to fall back to a suboptimal weapon: A lot of weapons came with two different damage types, those were rarely top tier weapons but your primary weapon was made of awesome whilesecondary that covered the other two base damage types might have had a nice feature. This meant that as a GM I could throw out some monsters that forced some of the party to switch over to a less powerful backup weapon rather than using 47 monsters or inflating their HP to make the fight into a massive slog.
• Elemental weapons: In 5e an elemental weapon means you do an extra d6 d8 or whatever of damage & that damage happens to be $element. In the past it meant that the extra d6/d8/whatever was fully effective even when your weapon's physical damage type was getting a chunk knocked off the top each attack meaning Alice's Flaming heavy mace was always reliable even though Bob's crit fishing weapon mastery & so on $whatever was freaking awesome whenever he crit & because undead couldn't be crit that was a nice thing for bob too,
• The golf bag wasn't to be effective or function, it was to be optimal in any situation.