Level Up (A5E) Improving spells

[Guest 6801328]

It'd it be cool if spells had options for saving throws, maybe even with different results on success/failure. E.g. you can try to dodge a spell, or you can try to tough it out.

But maybe too...messy...for 5e.

 

[Charlaquin]

I like your use of Effect alot.

Also, if the spell summons or creates an ongoing area of effect, like Flaming Sphere, the Effect says what you conjure (such as a sphere of fire). Then other lines describe whatever effects this conjuration can do (such as move, damage, and so on).

Exactly. I think it’s a nice format. I’ll continue playing with it and seeing how it works for spells with more complex effects, but I think it will be versatile enough to suit my purposes.

 

[Charlaquin]

It'd it be cool if spells had options for saving throws, maybe even with different results on success/failure. E.g. you can try to dodge a spell, or you can try to tough it out.

But maybe too...messy...for 5e.

Oh, easy peasy. Let’s say a monster casts burning hands.

DM: “The caster holds his hands with his thumbs together and his fingers outstretched, and a thin sheet of flames erupts from his fingertips. Alyssa and Bob, you’re both in the affected area. What do you do?
Alyssa: I try to roll out of the way of the flames before they hit me!
DM: Ok, make a DC 12 Dexterity saving throw. On a success you’ll only get singed for half damage, and either way you can use your reaction to move to a space outside the cone.
Alyssa: rolls Damn, I got a 9.
DM: Your reflexes aren’t quite quick enough. You can move out of the cone, but you’ll still take rolls 7 damage. Bob, what are you doing?
Bob: I’m not very nimble... I’m just going to grit my teeth and try to tough it out.
DM: You’ll take a direct hit from the flames, so you’ll be taking the full 7 if you do that. But if you pass a DC 12 Constitution save you can keep it together enough to make an attack against him with your reaction.
Bob: rolls 15!
DM: Awesome, make that attack roll.
Bob: Can I try to shove him prone instead of doing damage?
DM: Absolutely, let’s see that Strength check. The caster got a... rolls 11.
Bob: rolls 18!

 

[tetrasodium]

Maybe the spell focus itself should clarify the requirement.

For example.

. A wand, rod, or staff must be held in hand.
. A material component pouch must have a free hand to rummage, find and present the material component.
. If a longsword or throw hammer or other weapon is a focus, it must be in hand.
. A holy symbol can be an amulet held in hand, or worn on a necklace, or painted on a shield, or so on.
. Possibly, for a psionic concept, a verbal component replaces the other components, and serves as the focus as well.
. A ki item can be worn anywhere on the body.

And so on.

It seems the spell focuses can be quite different from each other.

There's a much better way of doing it than potentially bringing up discussion over how a character really casts a magic spell by using a system already well established & rarely an issue... For example:

• A wand(1h) cast spells within the following limitations triggering an AoO
• rod(1h)cast spells with the slightly more restrictive limitations without triggering an AoO
• An aundairan spellblade 1d6 /x2 slash & thrane faith hammer 1d6 /x2 bludgeon are 2h weapons that are able to barely function as a melee weapon and cast spells within the following more restrictive limitations.
• A holy symbol(2h) a significantly sized symbol of your faith that must be firmly presented when casting spells in order to channel your faith into the world & can not simply be hidden under your armor cast divine spells with the following benefits/improvements triggering an AoO both to cast or take a 5 foot step/shift
• staff(2h) cast spells with the following benefits/improvements triggering an AoO both to cast and take a 5 foot step/shift
• A material component pouch(2h) easily concealed & more portable than a staff or holy symbol. Cast spells with the following lesser benefits/improvements provokes an AoO to cast spells or take a 5 foot step/shift
• A faith shield (special:shield) allows you to cast divine spells within the following limits but casting or taking a 5 foot step/shift does not trigger an AoO
• can be an amulet held in hand, or worn on a necklace, or painted on a shield, or so on.
• Possibly, for a psionic concept, for squishy/glass cannon as well as gish needs like above
• A ki item is split into squishy/glass cannon & gish varieties like above.

 

[Morrus]

We’re discussing the idea of tags (not calling them tags though). Fireball — arcane, evocation, fire. Lists can be dynamically created in various configurations that way. A firemage archetype can use all spells with the fire tag. Very preliminary thinking.

 

[Horwath]

1st. thing spell indexing.

PHB 3.5e style:

every spell listed by class->level>school. With short one sentence description.


2nd. full spell description section.

Sort spells by level then by alphabet


3rd. if possible: go back to 3 saves vs 6 saves. Just personal preference. too much abilities, not enough spell to go around and balance each ability.


4th. damage spell scaling. it's horrible now. Consider scaling 3 damage dice for single spells or 2 damage dice for AoE spell per added spell level.
add half proficiency to non-proficient saves.
Fort save: str+con
Ref save: dex+int
Will save: wis+cha
change spell DC from 8+prof+mod+misc to 10+prof+mod+misc.

5th. Spell components.
Make short definition about Verbal and Somatic components.

Even if almost all spells have V and S components, spells by their own theme and application could have their components split into
Covert and Exposed.

Covert components are really subtle, a few wiggle of a finger or two and few short words whispered under breath.

Exposed would be forceful gesture with one hand and loud firm voice invoking spells and sometimes visible spell effects from caster to target.

Covert spells could be: invisibility, charm person, various detect spells, all image spells, etc...

Exposed spells; most direct damage spells, fly, dimension door, teleport, summons, fear, dispel magic, etc...


6th. add class name to every full spell description so we do not jump back and forth in the book when picking spells.

 

[Horwath]

We’re discussing the idea of tags (not calling them tags though). Fireball — arcane, evocation, fire. Lists can be dynamically created in various configurations that way. A firemage archetype can use all spells with the fire tag. Very preliminary thinking.

no need for arcane/divine tag as some classes/subclasses blur that line and cross it often.

Evocation / Fire if enough.

or just Fire as Evocation is spell school and can be in it's separate row.

I.E.

Spell name; Fireball
Spell level; 3rd
Classes; Wiz, Sor, Fire domain, Fiend patron, insert any other class/subclass from the book that gains fireball
School; Evocation
Type; Fire
Casting time; 1 Action
Components; V, S, M(bat guano, sulfur)
Range; 150 ft
Concentration; No
Duration; instantaneous

A bright streak...bla, bla...

 

[tetrasodium]

We’re discussing the idea of tags (not calling them tags though). Fireball — arcane, evocation, fire. Lists can be dynamically created in various configurations that way. A firemage archetype can use all spells with the fire tag. Very preliminary thinking.

That's an interesting way of listing them that opens some possibilities. Taking the fireball example it might be fireball L3 arcane 6 evocation 4 fire 4 where you need to meet one of the values between your race/class's base value & focus item to cast it but meeting enough or exceeding by enough might allow casting it at the base level at a reduced cost or casting it at lase cost with an improved effect from spell to spell. Rather than scaling cantrips a blaster type(Lets say Alice) might be casting burning hands as a cantrip-like thing between their focus item & class choices while some other wizard leaning more towards buff/debuff/battlefield control & management might (Lts say Bob) be casting low level spells from those areas as a cantrip-like slotless thing. Alice still uses spell slots to cast bob's go to thing & bob uses them to cast hers or they have different cost/effect based on the spells they are casting.

@Horwath by having an arcane & divine tag you can have a spell that is arcane X & divine Y with different levels for each There used to be a lot of them like these for example.

 

[Horwath]

@Horwath by having an arcane & divine tag you can have a spell that is arcane X & divine Y with different levels for each There used to be a lot of them like these for example.

yes, but in 5E there is no different level spells for different classes. And nor it should be.

 

[Stalker0]

One I have thought about but would love others opinions on. I think concentration is so important in the current 5e system (too important imo, but we aren't talking about spell changes here).

Maybe it should get its own line in the spell (Concentration: Yes/No), and definately should be well highlighted in any table. I should be able to always look at a list of spells and quickly see which ones are concentration, as when I watch my players look at lists for new spells, that is there number one check