The d2010 Era

[Aldarc]

There is a remarkable cluster of fantasy TTRPGs that came out primarily post-2010 that are basically d20 derived variants, including the elephant in the room: 5e D&D. These "d2010" games, in part, likely exist as a reaction to not only 4e D&D, but also 3e D&D. But what I would like to discuss are the commonalities that exist between these systems regardless of their mechanical differences. Because I suspect that the mechanical differences exist mostly as differences in "how" to address the changing Zeitgeist in d20 game design.

Dragon Age RPG (2010): Green Ronin published Dragon Age RPG, which became the basis for their Fantasy AGE system (2017). Sure, it's 3d6 and not d20, but it nevertheless feels rooted in D&D. It has three classes that go up to 20th level and uses a sort of feat/specialization (subclass) hybrid system.

13th Age (2013): A co-production between Jonathan Tweet (3e lead designer) and Rob Heinsoo (4e lead designer) that some have described as the love-child of the two systems.

Numenera (2013): Monte Cook quit WotC and his work on D&D Next to found Monte Cook Games and create Numenera, a game that uses d20 for task resolution. Characters are generated modular way through a "I'm (Descriptor) (Type) who (Focus)."

D&D 5th Edition (2014): In some regards it exists apart from these other works given its commitment to being D&D - which is something the others are not necessarily trying or required to be - but at the same time it feels like it would be amiss to not include it.

Shadow of the Demon Lord (2015): Robert Schwalb also did a bit of work on D&D Next before going his own way and creating Shadow of the Demon Lord, which may reflect some of the different choices he would have made for 5e. It also features a modular design where players choose an Ancestry, but then also choose a Novice Path (e.g., Rogue, Magician, Priest, Warrior), an Expert Path, and a Master Path, which can be mixed and matched.

I almost feel like I probably missing some obvious games that belong to this "d2010 family," but I'm not sure.

 

[schneeland]

A lot of d20-based OSR-stuff (both with little and with larger variations from the original framework) came out. I can list a few specific titles if you like.

 

[Aldarc]

I'm not entirely sure if I would classify OSR during the 2010s as being part of this d2010 family. Though there are some similar beats that both OSR and d2010 games share, they also have some different ones: e.g., OSR retrocloning as well as the fact that d2010 has a lot of D&D-connected designers (e.g., Cook, Pramas, Heinsoo, Tweet, Schwalb, etc.) vs. OSR indie/fan designers. I'm sure they are exceptions, but it seems like these d2010 games have a lot more in common with each other than with the OSR family of games.

 

[GMMichael]

No mention of Pathfinder 2? Does it lean on the (WotC) Open Game License and SRD?

I'm not sure that the d20 "zeitgeist" can change much, given that it's basically codified. Did you mean the D&D zeitgeist? RPG?

 

[Aldarc]

No mention of Pathfinder 2? Does it lean on the (WotC) Open Game License and SRD?

To be honest, I'm not sure how Pathfinder 2 fits into this schema. In many regards, the other games seem like solid moves towards rules-lighter games with respect to 3e and the d20 engine. Pathfinder 2, though it lightens the load in places, it also raises the complexity in other areas while also trying to still act as a game in the vein of 3e and Pathfinder 1.

I'm not sure that the d20 "zeitgeist" can change much, given that it's basically codified. Did you mean the D&D zeitgeist? RPG?

I meant "d20 Zeitgeist." So how a lot of preferences in d20-based RPGs designs were shifting post-3e D&D: e.g., OSR, 4e D&D, etc. Not to mention Dungeon World (2012) and Fate Core (2013), which also may have exerted some market influence, albeit mostly at the designer level rather than the consumer level. But overall, the d2010 era seems to involve rethinking the d20 system in the wake of both 3e and 4e D&D. As I said before, admittedly Dragon Age RPG goes outside of this mold being 3d6, but the d20 DNA is definitely there.

 

[GMMichael]

So, you're really focusing on the usage of the d20, huh? That has significant implications for the d6. But I digress...

I've read me some Fantasy AGE. On one hand, watching Wil Wheaton run it didn't feel much like D&D, and definitely not like 3rd ed. On the other, some terms in that book seem to come directly from the Player's Handbook. But Numenera uses a d20, sure. It's further from D&D than Fantasy AGE is. I wouldn't describe Numenera as a reaction to D&D3, except for Monty Cook's ties to the game. And the character classes. And the list of actions-in-combat (despite the fact that there's no combat chapter).

If a game doesn't use the Open Game License, I wouldn't call it "d20-based." Just because that's a really blurry line - evidenced by your mentions of Dungeon World and Fate.

 

[Campbell]

Numenera basically is Post Apocalyptic D&D with the serial numbers filed off. It not being OGL based does not change that.

 

[Aldarc]

So, you're really focusing on the usage of the d20, huh? That has significant implications for the d6. But I digress...

I've read me some Fantasy AGE. On one hand, watching Wil Wheaton run it didn't feel much like D&D, and definitely not like 3rd ed. On the other, some terms in that book seem to come directly from the Player's Handbook. But Numenera uses a d20, sure. It's further from D&D than Fantasy AGE is. I wouldn't describe Numenera as a reaction to D&D3, except for Monty Cook's ties to the game. And the character classes. And the list of actions-in-combat (despite the fact that there's no combat chapter).

If a game doesn't use the Open Game License, I wouldn't call it "d20-based." Just because that's a really blurry line - evidenced by your mentions of Dungeon World and Fate.

Not quite. When I talk about the developments in the d20 system, that does not mean that these games have to use the d20 system or even a d20 (e.g., Fantasy AGE). However, one can tell that there is a lot of overlapping conceptual DNA shared between these games rooted in the preceding d20 system that points to a particular trend in game design around this time. For the lack of a better, pre-existing label, I use the moniker "d2010" for the family of games in this vein.

There are some fairly common features, particularly more modular character class design. 5e D&D is probably the most basic with its class + subclass model. Fantasy AGE, for example, uses three broad classes (warrior, mage, rogue) but then creates specializations for characters using a three-tiered feat/talent system (i.e., novice, journeyman, master). This is similar to what one finds in 13th Age (i.e., adventurer, champion, epic). Numenera has its "Descriptor Type who Focus" modularity while also building around three broad Types/Classes (~warrior, mage, rogue). In Shadow of the Demon Lord, PCs build their character over 10 levels by choosing a Novice path, an Expert path, and a Master path.

There is also a simplification of the skill system. (In this regard, this would be a contrast to Pathfinder 2 which further codifies skills and their effects). There is no skill list, for example, in either Numenera, 13th Age, or Shadow of the Demon Lord. These games, instead, opt for more free-form skills. 13th Age goes with rating Aspect-like backgrounds. Numenera lacks a skill list but character options can confer training in various activities or scenarios (e.g., you are trained in solving puzzles, etc.). Shadow of the Demon Lord opts for Professions that act as permissions for success or rolling. 5e is more like 4e (than 3e) in that it offers a more simplified skill list that is less inclined to delineated particular outcomes with the results. In some regards, FAGE is the exception in that it opts for a much larger skill/talent list, but it is also a lot less interested in skill descriptions and codified outcomes.

You can pick up the echoes of 3e (and 4e) in the class design in these games. In the case of Fantasy AGE, one can also see clear influence from Green Ronin's True20 system, which itself was a d20 system derivative.

 

[GMMichael]

Not quite. When I talk about the developments in the d20 system, that does not mean that these games have to use the d20 system or even a d20 (e.g., Fantasy AGE). However, one can tell that there is a lot of overlapping conceptual DNA shared between these games rooted in the preceding d20 system that points to a particular trend in game design around this time. For the lack of a better, pre-existing label, I use the moniker "d2010" for the family of games in this vein.

You have an interesting idea going here, but I can't contribute much until I know which games you're talking about. The set seems to include games that aren't SRD-users, but some that are, but it isn't the set of all games released from 2010-2019. If it's just those mentioned in the OP, then you have a discussion. (But you said you might have missed some...)

Really, most games are d20-like if you're just looking for these features:

• GM and PC
• Character classes
• General rule for conflict resolution
• Characters gain skill
• Has rules that govern combat

 

[Aldarc]

You have an interesting idea going here, but I can't contribute much until I know which games you're talking about. The set seems to include games that aren't SRD-users, but some that are, but it isn't the set of all games released from 2010-2019. If it's just those mentioned in the OP, then you have a discussion. (But you said you might have missed some...)

I think you're getting it. I'm not talking about all d20 games during this time or even just d20 games. Instead, I am talking about a set of d20-inspired games that were published 2010 and 2015* - mostly by designers with roots in writing/publishing for D&D - that seemingly respond to 3e/4e in a number of similar ways. In some regards one could even think of these games as different visions for what 5e D&D possibly could have been, not necessarily in whole, but in part. There may be other such games out there that fit this mold, but I'm not entirely sure.

* It may be better to have 2015 as the marker, as we start getting games written more in response to 5e as the 800 pound gorilla in the room: e.g., Pugmire, Adventures in Middle Earth, Five Torches Deep, Black Hack, Index Card RPG, etc.

I may be fascinated by these games that were published in this 5 year time window in no small part because, in retrospect, these games offered a brief flash of creativity demonstrating similar ideas with different methods before the increased market homogeneity that has since followed in the wake of 5e.