D&D 5E 4th level Bladesinger with same AC as Tarrasque
And can also pull blur (though by 7th level).
My current 7th paladin is rocking a base AC of 21 can easily go to 23 (Shield of Faith) and most fights the sorcerer twins haste with him as one of the targets (AC 25).
The DM has had absolutely no problem in challenging us in fights.
High AC is good, but it's not the be all end all - and frankly the fact that the BS focuses on it means they are not as focused on other aspects of being a wizard - which are as or more helpful to the party.
clearstream
(He, Him)
I agree, and responsive to that and other posts. The issue with BS is not simply that they can spike their AC, but they can do so efficiently, most encounters, while retaining full caster levels as a wizard. Power upon power.
Spiking AC stands out, but it obfuscates the problem. A BS is an amazing tank - which can occasionally fall apart just like any character class, given foes with the right counter-abilities - while remaining a full wizard. Debates that focus on the tank part while ignoring that the BS can still take and cast fireball like any other wizard, seem to me to miss the crux of why the OP could concern a DM.
EK is a solid tank, with the advantage of more HP (though not necessarily better Con / Concentration, and perhaps not better resisting special melee attacks noting the BS advantage on Acrobatics while singing which is sometimes forgotten about). Not being able to impose disadvantage does mean that generally, an EK with shield can tank far fewer melee attacks than a BS using blur (and sometimes shield, but less often as they are otherwise hit less often).
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
I don't disagree with you, but ... by being a BS, you sacrifice being a diviner or some other useful wizard school. You are not as good a wizard because of that.
clearstream
(He, Him)
Not as good a wizard because you can only tank better than most martials while casting fireballs. It's not clear to me how one is defining the word "good" in that context
I agree with you that Diviner would be the strongest other choice. The leverage over the narrative that your portent die rolls give you is amazing. I played a Diviner Lore Bard with Lucky to 9th level, it was about as ridiculous as you might imagine
Fun though.
Not as good a wizard because you can only tank better than most martials while casting fireballs. It's not clear to me how one is defining the word "good" in that context
I agree with you that Diviner would be the strongest other choice. The leverage over the narrative that your portent die rolls give you is amazing. I played a Diviner Lore Bard with Lucky to 9th level, it was about as ridiculous as you might imagine
A good AC alone does not make a good Tank - and may actually be a detriment as enemies don't bother trying to hit you in favor of easier targets. A Tank is someone who actively diverts damage from other party members (usually, but not always, onto himself). Other than, possibly, booming blade what does the BS bring to the table on that front?
The Cavalier fighter that's a good tank. The Battlemaster has some good manuevers for tanking. The Paladin has some spells that are great for tanking (such as compelled duel) and some subclasses also. The barbarian can be a pretty good tank (the fact that their AC isn't in the stratosphere is actually good because they'll draw attacks) and at 14th level (likely too late to matter, but still) the Bear Totem has arguably the best tanking ability period (when raging any enemy within 5' has disadvantage on everyone but the barb). The Eldridge knight can tank well with feat support (Polearm master and/or sentinel)
clearstream
(He, Him)
Other than the full suite of wizard spells, nothing really
I know what you mean though. The BS is not dealing much melee damage. Yet... they are a full caster. From the point of view of the foes, they're likely the most dangerous PC in the room. Ignoring them is perhaps not the most overall winning option...
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
I've seen this done before - the "caster tank". You have a spell-caster that makes themselves a problem (by casting spells on the bad guys) and by being presumably a soft target. The trick to make this work is that the caster has to be able to withstand a round or two of attacks by some of the bad guys. Because they (the bad guys) have "pushed forward", they are vulnerable to be piled on by the party back line, and they (the bad guys) may have left their back line vulnerable.
I did something like this, sort of by accident, in a 3.X game where I was playing an alchemist. He was a dwarf and had the second highest hp in the party and the highest AC. It would have worked great too, but one of the other caster was incredibly squishy so ....
Anyway, the BS could play such a role.
Edits for clarity
I did something like this, sort of by accident, in a 3.X game where I was playing an alchemist. He was a dwarf and had the second highest hp in the party and the highest AC. It would have worked great too, but one of the other caster was incredibly squishy so ....
Anyway, the BS could play such a role.
Edits for clarity
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Other than the full suite of wizard spells, nothing really
I know what you mean though. The BS is not dealing much melee damage. Yet... they are a full caster. From the point of view of the foes, they're likely the most dangerous PC in the room. Ignoring them is perhaps not the most overall winning option...
Depends on what they are doing. If they are prancing around in melee trying to hit with their rapier - they are likely not the most dangerous foe on the field!
I get what your saying a high AC for a caster helps the caster get their full array of spells onto the bad guys. But, unlike other specialties the BS's abilities don't actually help much with the caster side of things.
A diviner can, among other things, ensure a failed saving throw. An invoker can warp his spells for maximum placement, etc. A BS can, not get hit - again that's not nothing - but it's a tradeoff.
clearstream
(He, Him)
In that regard, it is notable that the BS adds their Int bonus to their saving throw to maintain concentration. And they have advantage on wriggling out of special melee attacks.
With either War Caster or Resilient they can achieve
