That seems like a good argument against it.I think the current ability score system is a decent way to reinforce archetypes.
Last edited:
That seems like a good argument against it.I think the current ability score system is a decent way to reinforce archetypes.
So basically all of that to say "My arguments are far superior to yours. I'm right, you've proven nothing, neener neener".
There's nothing to "prove" here. I think the current ability score system is a decent way to reinforce archetypes. Most people don't care about lore, they base their concept of what a race is on imagery and what they see other people play. Yes, gnomes are more likely to be wizards than barbarians. That's part of their archetype, part of their easily identifiable role in the game. That's the point.
On the other hand a gnome could make a fine strength based PC because a 95% of the time it's not going to make a difference. It's not a hard concept, the fact that you refuse to even acknowledge that someone else's opinion might be valid ... well have a good one.
I would never use the word deceive.
You stated you want a 16. That doesn't mean the others that want this book want a 16. I agree.
But if they want to create lore, by making odd race/class combinations. Yet the only way to increase players using those combinations is by giving someone a 16 in the beginning, then that is what the essence of the argument is still about.
It is the same for the other side. They think the PHB does a good job at reinforcing race/class combinations, and thus, keeping intact the lore as it is at present. It does this by making some race/class combinations less effective at lower levels at their primary "schtick." (They may be better at other things, but never really combat.)
All I am saying is the essence of this debate for the side that wants the change is the 16. I could say the essence of the debate on the other side is the 15. The rest is speculation on the effects that this 16 will have. We know the effects of the 15 - it keeps many players from exploring race/class combinations that aren't optimal.
I have not ascertained a truth. But I do know that rule changes are often made because they want to make things easier. And min/maxers, optimizers and players that like immediate gratification are always happier with easier. It gives them the possibilities they wanted. But it comes at a cost. For some, the easier route is a lot less fun. Much like the player at your table that didn't have fun because they had a 15 instead of a 16 in wisdom at the start of the game. The reverse can be true. (Oofta and others have given you a myriad of reasons to explain this.)
So if you want to speculate on the effects that having a 16 for all race/class combinations will have. I am happy to read them. But if you want to continue to debate that the argument is more than just about having a 16, then you are right, I have a truth. I know that anyone can make any character with a score that is 95% equal to any other character. And I also know that is not equal enough for some.
But that's been tried with various games, yet D&D remains the 800 pound gorilla. Some of that is name recognition, but if that's all it was then even if D&D was the biggest it doesn't seem like it would be the biggest by such a wide margin.Although I rather like D&D’s approach of character creation by picking from a couple of options (race, class, background), I have to admit that those arguing for getting rid of racial builds have a point.
I wonder, however, how long it will take for people to realize that classes are as problematic as races. It seems to me that we’re on the verge of realizing that it would be simpler, more elegant and more satisfying to play D&D without races, classes or levels.
First, I did let real world frustration affect my post. Sorry.It is so hard to talk to you when every post of your starts with you accusing me and attacking me. If you think my posts are so terrible then just report me to the mods and get it over with.
And, I do think your opinion is valid, but you are arguing for a book to not be published because of personal preference. You are arguing that the publication of this book will harm the game. And that requires evidence. If you just don't like it because you don't like it, that's fine. But if you want to argue that the inclusion of these rules actively is harmful for the game, you need to have some evidence.
True. But once races fall out of fashion, it seems inevitable that people will realize that they don’t need classes either. The avalanche has started, it is, as a wise man once said, too late for the pebbles to vote.But that's been tried with various games, yet D&D remains the 800 pound gorilla. Some of that is name recognition, but if that's all it was then even if D&D was the biggest it doesn't seem like it would be the biggest by such a wide margin.
That seems like a good argument against it.
The thing is, race/lineage isn't going away. Elves, dwarves and the like still have unique abilities that aren't ability mods or free proficiencies. Stonecunning, fey ancestry, breath weapons, infernal legacy all still exist and are parts of a characters build, just it's a less important part, especially since the choice point no longer "I could take x race and get abilities that synergize with my build, or y race which doesn't but fits my character" to "I want to play x race, how do I modify it to make it less redundant with my class?"True. But once races fall out of fashion, it seems inevitable that people will realize that they don’t need classes either. The avalanche has started, it is, as a wise man once said, too late for the pebbles to vote.
This right here. 95% of the fantasy books written. 95% of the fantasy heroes in video games. 95% of the fantasy characters on tv. D&D has had an influence on. Many Hollywood writer rooms have D&D books in them. And I feel certain more than a few authors and video game designers have D&D books on their bookshelves. It has seeped into the culture, and one cannot talk fantasy without talking D&D.I think easily recognized concepts and archetypes are part of what D&D what it is.