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D&D 5E Jeremy Crawford Discusses Details on Custom Origins

Argyle King

Legend
The thing is, most of those racial abilities that would be seen as too powerful or too weak.... were already considered too powerful or too weak.

Flight is already something that many DMs ban from races. The Dragonborn racial abilities have long been considered too weak. Half-Elves have long been considered an incredibly powerful choice.

And like I challenged Northern Phoenix, give me something that you think is broken in this new paradigm, and I'm fairly certain I can find at least one official way to do the same or almost the same thing.

The weak abilities are still weak. The strong abilities are still strong. And there is no combo that can be done now that was not possible before.

I don't see pointing out that the game has broken pieces as a valuable argument in favor of more broken pieces.

I completely agree that the base game has parts which are problematic. Going further in that direction isn't what I believe is the best way to improve the game as a whole. (...and is oddly similar to sentiments I had toward how 4E evolved in -what I saw as- a wrong direction which eventually broken the game further.)

No game will be perfect. Even my favorite systems have things which bug me about their design. However, from my view (despite the many things I like about 5E,) I feel the game is continuing a trend of approaching problems from a direction which exacerbates rather than improves those problems.
 

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Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I'll bet that we'll see a lot of those. A winning position. I hate loosing. ;)


Excluding V-humans? Almost none. Half-elves rules charisma related classes. We did have a half-orc paladin, a halfling sorcerer and a gnome bard! So far all warlocks have been half-elves or humans.
I had a half-orc Barbarian/Bard in my last campaign.
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
I'd like to point out (again) that more editions of D&D (OD&D and all five editions—'77, '81, '83, '91, '94—of "basic" D&D) had no ASIs than those that did and they are thus not necessary to make elves elfy or dwarves dwarfy.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I'd like to point out (again) that more editions of D&D (OD&D and all five editions—'77, '81, '83, '91, '94—of "basic" D&D) had no ASIs than those that did and they are thus not necessary to make elves elfy or dwarves dwarfy.
Were there any additions without ASIs that didn't have either demi-human level limits and/or demi-human ability score caps?
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Personally, I have wanted the cultural stuff separated out of race since AD&D. I wish the designers of Tasha's had separated out the non-biological and introduced cultural (e.g. Nomad, Rural, Urban, Mageocracy, Military, Theocracy), and environmental packages (e.g. Arctic, Coastal, Forest, Grasslands, Jungle, Mountains, Underground,) which could be applied independently of race. Then, apply defaults to the non-human race (eg. Elf (Forest), Dwarves (underground, Mountain, or Hill) . DMs could simply choose a different culture or environmental package to easily modify a race's culture (e.g. Dwarf (Swamp)) or to accommodate a player character raised in a different culture.
Aside from the pre-fab cultural/environmental packages, Ancestry & Culture attempts to seperate them. You may find it interesting.
 

Azzy

ᚳᚣᚾᛖᚹᚢᛚᚠ
Were there any additions without ASIs that didn't have either demi-human level limits and/or demi-human ability score caps?
No score caps? Yes. I can't remember off-hand about OD&D, but the "basic" line had no upper limits on ability scores based on race. As far as level limits? Yes... mostly (from the '83 edition onward, demihumans had "attack ranks" and the occasional special ability after they reached their racial level limits).
 


Um, without issue?
And then they rewrote and changed the race... s... Oh wait. They didn't.
Those PHB edits are rather deceitful.

Turning to a random race

"Tieflings share certain racial traits as a result of their infernal descent"

And then they list those things including:
  • Ability scores
  • Age
  • Alignment
  • Size
  • Speed
  • Darkvision
  • Fire Resistance
  • Infernal Legacy spells
  • Languages
Now, some of that stuff is racial and clearly a result of their lineage. Age, size, darkvision, land speed. Some of that is not like Language and Alignment.

And this is true of every single race you listed. You took the first sentence, then posted only the ASIs and ignored everything else underneath that sentence. So, unless you want to say that Half-elves Biologically know a random language from any race, or that Halflings are biologically pre-disposed to Law, then you need to recognize that not everything under that sentence is meant to be true of the race as a biological fact.
As I said, some will read that and gleam what they want. It does list those other things. We all know this. But the language clearly implies they biological, like age, size, speed, and special abilities. Of course language and alignment are learned. Common sense should tell you that. Just like it should tell you the biological features.
I have watched you argue with many on here. About how it only applies to PC's. Yet clearly the language in here states it is not just the PC's, but the entire race.
Lastly, you accuse me of cherry picking or not placing everything on the board. I listed the entire statements from all the races. All of the statements. To not list the other stuff is not to mislead, and you know that. We all know the PHB. It is to point out the language the writers used, and how that language clearly demonstrates exactly the opposite of what you have said. Here it is again:
"Your dwarf character has an assortment of inborn abilities, part and parcel of Dwarven nature - +2 con."
"Your elf character has a variety of natural abilities, the result of thousands of years of elven refinement - +2 dex."
"You halfling character has a number of traits in common with all other halflings - +2 dex."
"It's hard to make generalizations about humans, but your human character has these traits - +1 for all abilities."
"Your draconic heritage manifests in a variety of traits you share with other dragonborn - +2 str."
"Your gnome character has certain characteristics in common with all other gnomes - +2 int."
"Your half-elf character has some qualities in common with elves and some that are unique to half-elves - +2 cha."
"Your half-orc character has certain traits deriving from your orc ancestry - +2 str."
"Tieflings share certain racial traits as a result of their infernal descent - +2 cha."

I will do what you did. Turning to one at random, the halfling states their traits are in common with all other halflings. Notice it doesn't say in common with all other halfling characters. It says halflings. Here is another random one: half-orc character has certain traits deriving from your orc ancestry. Read the passages and take what you want from them. But I said it earlier, it is disingenuous to play devil's advocate or argue for the sake of arguing without at least stating that is what you are doing. You are clearly wrong on this. Clearly. To say, "Huh, I didn't look at like that, but it is apparent that's what they meant," would be a mature step.

If you want to debate its effects or even how the cap institutes the irrelevance of solidified versus floating ASI's or how the lore will not change. That's cool. I'm all ears.
 

I still don't see how what is in the books affects one's home game. If they want races with set bonuses (or even minuses) they can do so. They can also say "This is a non-TCoE table". They can't do that in Adventure League, but you can't do lots of things in Adventure League.
I would note not all tables are monolithic. Many I have played at have a mix. A couple players will want to use Tasha's and a couple will not. The people I play with are mature. They will of course oblige their friends because they are, exactly that, friends. The DM will also do the same. And now suddenly you have a table where two are happy, two are happy for their friends but could do without the exploitation of rules, and the DM may or may not be pleased. But because people try to get along, that's what they do.

I think there are a lot more tables like this than is realized.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
Yeah, weird. Wonder why WotC would do that?

Guess humans really ARE versatile; the can literally be 90% of the other races!
Soooooo, one of the arguments here has been that the loss of racial bonuses means that every race will be human. I guess it was already that way. ;)
 

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