D&D General D&D as a Curated, DIY Game or "By the Book": Examining DM and Player Agency, and the DM as Game Designer

[Bedrockgames]

You mean it's silly to consider looking someone in the eye and saying "No you can't play what you want and there's no way and no how I'm going to adapt my world to make us both have fun and have fun playing something that isn't your most inspired choice for X hours per week" different to not taking into account what people you have never met or heard of might want?

This isn't just about the player and the GM. Lots of players, myself included, do get annoyed when other players insist on a character concept that doesn't fit the genre or the GMs setting. Obviously there needs to be buy in with the group for the campaign to function. The more threads like this I read, the more I think that is a fundamental dividing line in the hobby more than anything else. Neither side is bad for wanting what they want. But some people do like the characters to be expected to fit the campaign concept, the world or the genre, others prefer for players to have greater say in what is a good fit.

 

[Minigiant]

Again I think it's less about how people see D&D and D&D has grown.

In the old days, only 1 kind of "nerd"* played D&D.
Now 37+ types of "nerd" play D&D.

When everyone is the same, the need for stated rules diminishes as all thinks the same on topic. So play slide heavy into a get-together.

When everyone is different, this is 100% not the case and people wishes to vote on rules.


*"Nerd" not being an insult but as a term for a knowledgeable fan of something.

 

[prabe]

Again I think it's less about how people see D&D and D&D has grown.

In the old days, only 1 kind of "nerd"* played D&D.
Now 37+ types of "nerd" play D&D.

When everyone is the same, the need for stated rules diminishes as thinks the same on topic. So play slide heavy into a get-together.

When everyone is different, this is 100% not the case and people wishes to vote on rules.


*"Nerd" not being an insult but as a term for a knowledgeable fan of something.

This might well be connected to the change/s described in the OP.

 

[Charlaquin]

“No you can't play what you want and there's no way and no how I'm going to adapt my world to make us both have fun and have fun playing something that isn't your most inspired choice for X hours per week"

Everyone who has ever said this to a player or had this said to you by a DM, raise your hand.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don't agree at all and think that trying to make that claim involves conflating the two. Everything in 5e is a one off rule with little structural framework linking it. Someone else mentioned needing to check a rulebook in an old edition like 3.5 if being on higher ground meant +2 or not, the ruing is "yes or no" and the +2 is because there is a framework saying that a circumstance/situation/whatever bonus is +2 while a penalty is -2. 5e lacks that so the answer is a rule once you include the fact that the gm needs to makeup a system for how it benefits/hinders someone.

Umm... Advantage/Disadvantage?

 

[Oofta]

For home campaigns I prefer curated worlds whether I'm DMing or not.

In my home campaign, when someone joins I've already given them information on the campaign world at large (high level details most people could know), a list of allowed races and general theme and tone of the campaign.

So when we're chatting about PCs, we discuss background and concept. Who are they? What kind of background story do they want to have? How can I integrate that story into the world?

If they want to play an elf swashbuckler maybe they come from this island chain ... but my campaign is going to be set inland this time. So why did they leave home? If they're a monk, it may make sense to come from here or maybe they were orphaned when these events happened and so on.

Players have minor impact when establishing history, minor enough that it's rare that it will affect future campaigns. They have major impact on the game through the actions of their PCs.

 

[Minigiant]

This might well be connected to the change/s described in the OP.

It is.

Part of the reason why the DM was given confidence to be a game designer was because the DM and most of the players were fans of the same things. Any newcomers were outnumbered and would not rock the boat.

Now there is little guarantee that the majority of the group have similar interests. So automatic trust isn't even thought of.

 

[Oofta]

It is.

Part of the reason why the DM was given confidence to be a game designer was because the DM and most of the players were fans of the same things. Any newcomers were outnumbered and would not rock the boat.

Now there is little guarantee that the majority of the group have similar interests. So automatic trust isn't even thought of.

Which is why I'm clear on setting parameters when I let people know about my game before we even have a session 0.

Technically they can ask to run a different race (it's in my intro), it just hasn't happened since my 4E campaign.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

The problem with this framing is that it implies that the one who is making the choice of curation is solely the DM, and is imposing it on the players. That's neglecting the fact that there are a lot of players who are actively looking for the DM to be the one to do the curating. Lots of players have a play expectation that they will be passengers on the DM's carefully crafted railroad.

I really wouldn't conflate enjoying curated settings with enjoying railroads. Now one may of course like both, but they're completely separate things. I like playing in curated worlds where the GM has put a lot of thought in things and have an unique vision. I want to explore such worlds, and that it is a product of someone else's mind makes it surprising and exiting. But I want to do the sightseeing at my own pace and not on rails.

 

[TwoSix]

I really wouldn't conflate enjoying curated settings with enjoying railroads. Now one may of course like both, but they're completely separate things. I like playing in curated worlds where the GM has put a lot of thought in things and have an unique vision. I want to explore such worlds, and that it is a product of someone else's mind makes it surprising and exiting. But I want to do the sightseeing at my own pace and not on rails.

That's fair.