A Question Of Agency?

[hawkeyefan]

Why? It feels like this is ground that's been covered numerous times. Every time an example provided of other play has evoked that feeling I've mentioned it. You were part of at least some of those discussions. Why do I need to either relist those examples or come up with a brand new one?

Because I don’t think that you’ve established such an example. I do believe that a couple have been offered in the thread, but since you expressed this concern that player based narrative mechanics start getting in the way, I would expect that you’d have firsthand knowledge of them.

So I invite you to share so that I may better understand your concerns and so that they don’t appear baseless.

 

[pemerton]

Why? It feels like this is ground that's been covered numerous times. Every time an example provided of other play has evoked that feeling I've mentioned it. You were part of at least some of those discussions. Why do I need to either relist those examples or come up with a brand new one?

Because I don’t think that you’ve established such an example. I do believe that a couple have been offered in the thread, but since you expressed this concern that player based narrative mechanics start getting in the way, I would expect that you’d have firsthand knowledge of them.

So I invite you to share so that I may better understand your concerns and so that they don’t appear baseless.

@FrogReaver - I believe that @hawkeyefan is asking for an example of your own play because to date you seem to be talking only about feelings evoked in you by others' examples of actual play.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Of course! Those pesky players may introduce an idea that conflicts with the things you haven’t predetermined!

This isn't about players being pesky or the GM predetermining things. It is about allowing a world that is external to the players. It is something I can appreciate on both sides of the screen. It is also very much a 'heres the world: now smash it' approach. If I was worried about pesky players, I wouldn't encourage them to have so much autonomy

 

[Bedrockgames]

I would, too. What game does this?

It was just a random example of something I think I would find annoying based on some of the narrative control options I have seen people suggest. Maybe I am misunderstanding the extent of the mechanics people had in mind (could have sworn some folks were arguing that allowing players to narrate that sort of thing enhances agency: but possible I am wrong)

 

[Bedrockgames]

Right. My point is that I’m not trying to guess at what kind of play you’re talking about. I very much understand it.

Have you played my style? (seriously asking). And do you know what my style is? The reason I said I don't play 5E is it doesn't seem particularly connected to my style of play (but haven't played it enough to know)

 

[Bedrockgames]

Even just the content of a session. In my game this week, there was nothing that was set prior to the session. We had some possible ideas of what the crew may do based on prior events. The players decided that they needed to make some coin so that they could improve their crew’s standing. So we quickly established some possible means for high paying scores. This put them at odds with a new faction, one if high standing. They wound up making a good amount of coin, but now they’ve annoyed a powerful faction. One I hadn’t previously introduced and only came into the mix because they needed a lucrative target.

Just to be clear, nothing is set prior to session in my games either. In that there isn't an adventure planned. There is setting material, but the whole way i like to play is just to unleash the players on the setting and see what they try to do.

 

[Fenris-77]

Maybe I am misunderstanding the extent of the mechanics people had in mind (could have sworn some folks were arguing that allowing players to narrate that sort of thing enhances agency: but possible I am wrong)

I think I said something to that effect. See my example upstream for the mechanics I has in mind when I said that.

 

[Ovinomancer]

This is really funny, because apart the GM being terrible, what you're doing here is what I want to see to happen in a session. I know the chart you're referring to. The players are engaging the fictional reality, treating it like it was real and making plans based on this. This is great stuff and should be rewarded and encouraged. The GM wasn't doing their job properly.

(Also, warp five? What sort of a garbage hauler were you flying?)

It's what I want to be happening in the scenario as well. Again, I challenge you to reconcile this with everything else I'm saying -- I would love a player to do this in my game. This kind of action is exactly the kind of thing I love to see in any game I ran.

 

[hawkeyefan]

This isn't about players being pesky or the GM predetermining things. It is about allowing a world that is external to the players. It is something I can appreciate on both sides of the screen. It is also very much a 'heres the world: now smash it' approach. If I was worried about pesky players, I wouldn't encourage them to have so much autonomy

I was just being cheeky because many of the things you say or the way you say them....like overriding player input....sound like the antithesis of player agency.

It was just a random example of something I think I would find annoying based on some of the narrative control options I have seen people suggest. Maybe I am misunderstanding the extent of the mechanics people had in mind (could have sworn some folks were arguing that allowing players to narrate that sort of thing enhances agency: but possible I am wrong)

Maybe? I don’t think that most such mechanics are so extreme. Like, if you’re playing a dungeon delving style of game, a player being able to author a room just seems over the top.

A recent example in my Blades game was that one of the crew members was a professor at the university, and he came up with a former colleague who’s an expert in forgotten religions and the like; they needed some help with gathering some information to help them deal with a score.

I don’t think that pushes too far into what you’d likely co sider egregious, though I could be wrong.

 

[hawkeyefan]

Have you played my style? (seriously asking). And do you know what my style is? The reason I said I don't play 5E is it doesn't seem particularly connected to my style of play (but haven't played it enough to know)

I probably shouldn’t have stated that so certainly because I don’t know if you’ve stated the game you play, or that you’ve really described it in any detail, beyond the terms “traditional” and “sandbox”.

But I’m certainly familiar with those terms, and so I expect I have played and run games that are likely very similar.

However, if you wanted to offer more details, that’d likely be helpful to the discussion.

Just to be clear, nothing is set prior to session in my games either. In that there isn't an adventure planned. There is setting material, but the whole way i like to play is just to unleash the players on the setting and see what they try to do.

Cool. How does that work? Like, are there physical or geographic boundaries in the setting? Does your game use NPC stats that need to be set before play? Maps and minis or theater of the mind?

Because the description “there is setting material, but the whole way I like to play is just to unleash the players on the setting and see what they try to do” sounds like my Blades game.

I expect there are some differences, though, and I wonder what they might be.