D&D General DM Authority

[Oofta]

Exactly.

The 5e DMG describes several flavors/genres of fantasy

• Herioc
• Sword and Sorcery
• Epic
• Mythic
• Dark
• Intrigue
• Mystery
• Swashbuckling
• War
• Wuxia

Most of the other DMGs do this as well.
If the DM doesn't state which one they are running clearly, all the headaches they get is on them. Especially when it comes to fighters, rogues, barbarians, and monks.

A rightful government can't fine or arrest people for crime they did not write down then state publicly. Same for a DM.

I'm quite clear about style of play, so this is kind of a red herring. Even so, depending on level and assuming they aren't hasted, a monk in 5E can run about 24 MPH. Slower than Usain Bolt. Admittedly the monk can run literal circles while doing this and it's not on a track so it's not bad.

What genre could you run 24 MPH to create a tornado? The Flash runs at 2,532 MPH according to a quick search. A hundred times faster, Mach 3.3. Since we're playing D&D, not a DC Superheroes game, what exactly was not clear? Because I don't see it working in any D&D specific genre without high level magic that's not inherently available to monks.

Because again, this is seems to just be dodging the question rather than answering it.

 

[Guest 6801328]

I'll add a caveat to what I was saying in the other thread (and many others besides that one): sure, the DM can tell the player, "No, your character believes X." Not that it's in the rules to do so, but the DM has the power to change the rules. So, Q.E.F.D., right?

The DM can also change the rules and say, "No, actually, the kobold's attack roll of 3 hits you in this case, and you take over 9,000 damage. So suck it."

I don't think the question is "what does the text authorize the DM to do" but rather, "What kind of DMing will lead to people having a good time and looking forward to the next session?"

 

[Minigiant]

What genre could you run 24 MPH to create a tornado?

Mythic

 

[Oofta]

This has gotten me curious about the source of the question (since I've already posted about how I'd answer it) - was this a power the player just wanted to flat-out add or was it based on some build he'd put together that gave him an insane movement rate and he wanted to turn it into an attack or somesuch?

They were fighting a guy (wizard IIRC) in an open field in the desert. The player said "I start running around him causing a tornado". No special power or spell, he just thought it should work because monks are fast.

 

[prabe]

Mythic

I believe there's a good argument that running at 24 MPH isn't mythic. It's about as fast as a human can run (a little slower than peak Usain Bolt, per WIkipedia) but I don't think that's a good definition of "mythic."

 

[Oofta]

Mythic

That, to me, would require a different set of rules depending on how you define it. Because if it was mythic then the monk could run as fast as they needed to, whether that was Mach 3.3 or the speed of light. But you don't do that in standard D&D without a lot of explicit house rules. Well, that and the whole tornado thing is kind of stupid, but it's comic book logic so it gets a pass.

 

[Minigiant]

I believe there's a good argument that running at 24 MPH isn't mythic. It might be just-past human capabilities, but I don't think that's a good definition of "mythic."

The point is that in a myth game, the DM might have to change the rules to match the genre.

The 5e DMG says Herioc is the genre the PHB assumes its character builds. Therefore any other theme might require DM houserules and adjustments and judgement calls.

So a player assuming a mythic monk would expect rulings and chages to let the mythic monk create tornados. It's up to the DM to tell the player its not a mythic game.

 

[Stormonu]

They were fighting a guy (wizard IIRC) in an open field in the desert. The player said "I start running around him causing a tornado". No special power or spell, he just thought it should work because monks are fast.

Okay, yeah. I think my gut reaction would have been to give the player a strange look and wagged my head no.

Buuuut, if I'd looked past my initial reaction, I think we'd both have been happier if I went with the move + ki trick I mentioned.

 

[Minigiant]

That, to me, would require a different set of rules depending on how you define it. Because if it was mythic then the monk could run as fast as they needed to, whether that was Mach 3.3 or the speed of light. But you don't do that in standard D&D without a lot of explicit house rules. Well, that and the whole tornado thing is kind of stupid, but it's comic book logic so it gets a pass.

That's the point.
5e defaults to Herioc. Everything might require houserules.

 

[prabe]

The point is that in a myth game, the DM might have to change the rules to match the genre.

The 5e DMG says Herioc is the genre the PHB assumes its character builds. Therefore any other theme might require DM houserules and adjustments and judgement calls.

So a player assuming a mythic monk would expect rulings and chages to let the mythic monk create tornados. It's up to the DM to tell the player its not a mythic game.

I think a player expecting a mythic game would have to be making presumptions not supported by the PHB (or, frankly, even by Theros).