A Question Of Agency?

[Ovinomancer]

Just sounds like another way to describe the dc to me.

Okay, I have a character. What's the DC if I succeed on any roll but a 1?

 

[Fenris-77]

A group effort IS made to make it so. There's all kinds of agreements to not fight with each other, to share similar goals, to avoid acts that harm others, even indirectly. This is an extremely common set of agreements made in party focused games. The system itself reinforces this by framing challenges at the party level rather than the individual level (go ahead, figure out how to use the CR system for a single character) and by advice like spotlight sharing and pacing (the rest structure is focused on this kind of party-level balancing). 5e games that feature common PvP, or actions taken against other party members, are very rare.

I think those concessions are necessary (desirable?) to play the game in many (most) cases, but I don't think they are place to serve some extrinsic goal of collaborative storytelling. Those things are all good of course, but collaborative storytelling they ain't. IMO anyway.

 

[Ovinomancer]

That's fair and reasonable. I guess I think more-interesting stories are likely to emerge from play if the players are advocating for (or at least honestly playing) their characters in pursuit of their agendas, than if they are focused on what will make a better story, or persistently subsuming their agenda to make a better story (which I think is different than deciding to help another character pursue their agenda).

I'm not sure I agree. I find that the stories that originate from character advocacy to be far more surprising, but I'm unwilling to call them more interesting (there's a difference, I think, between interesting and unexpected). And, I think a number of quite common games feature a lot of subsuming character to story, at least in the sense of avoiding character advocacy because it goes against the party.

Full throated character advocacy can very easily not play well with others. Some games handle this well -- again I point to AW -- but 5e is not one of them.

 

[prabe]

Okay, I have a character. What's the DC if I succeed on any roll but a 1?

Dunno the DC but I think your odds of success are 95%.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I think those concessions are necessary (desirable?) to play the game in many (most) cases, but I don't think they are place to serve some extrinsic goal of collaborative storytelling. Those things are all good of course, but collaborative storytelling they ain't. IMO anyway.

How is not rocking the boat and getting on the same page goal-wise NOT aiding a collaborative story experience? It's very purpose is to make the story about the ensemble rather than the individuals!

 

[FrogReaver]

Okay, I have a character. What's the DC if I succeed on any roll but a 1?

Well let’s see, you have a persuasion modifier of 0 so the dc is a 2...

 

[Fenris-77]

5e doesn't have systems to manage strong character advocacy anyway, nor does it encourage it.

 

[Fenris-77]

How is not rocking the boat and getting on the same page goal-wise NOT aiding a collaborative story experience? It's very purpose is to make the story about the ensemble rather than the individuals!

What I'm suggesting is that a collaborative gaming experience is not the same thing as collaborative storytelling. The things you describe are of course desirable and good.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Well let’s see, you have a persuasion modifier of 0 so the dc is a 2...

Insults, yes? And we're talking about my character, not me, so try again.

The real world, by the way, is not a game of D&D. This may be the root of a number of our disagreements, come to think of it....

 

[FrogReaver]

First I had one hair, now I have two! Abracadabra!

But can you define hair