D&D General why do we have halflings and gnomes?

[Umbran]

Which is why we grow things like basil, oregano, marjoram, mint, as well as rosemary, thyme, lavender, summer savory and sage.

Um...
Basil is not native to the Americas - it hails from Southeast Asia and Central Africa.
Oregano is not native to the Americas - it is European and Mediterranean in origin.
Marjoram is not native to the Americas - it is indigenous to the Mediterranean.
Rosemary, Thyme, Lavender, Savory, Sage - none of these is native to the Americas. Nor are apples.

These were all imports... via trade.

 

[tetrasodium]

It's not meant as a counter. It's a recognition that the setting is imaginary, as are the halflings in it. They can either not need or grow adequate spice to make their delicious meals because they can with no further justification needed, because where they live and what they eat is all imaginary. And it doesn't have to be particularly bountiful, just bountiful enough to support the community.

and that would be fine were it not the very people who ridiculed & dismissed the very idea that halflings should be at least as concerned about dangerous monsters as their historical counterparts were about dangerous animals when the problem was dismissed with an unbelievable litany of not engaging in trade, engaging in trade but it's not trade, shunning the wheel & carts/wagons to bring crops to a market in small enough volumes to carry it by mule on foot through nonrepeating wilderness routes that avoid making a path that a bandit ranger could find.

The initial dismissal was not credible and it's too late to go back to "the setting is imaginary" once the idea of monsters was dismissed with scorn as if monsters existing in numbers greater than zero in the world turned it into some ultra deadly death world

 

[Don Durito]

So the issue with halflings is that they're hobbits?

What about Dwarves, great big cities underground that take an unbelievable effort to dig out, lack natural sunlight and vitamin d, and lack clear agricultural areas. So how you would besiege a Dwarven city? Just occupy all the land around it so they can't get access to the agriculture they would need on the surface to feed all the people in the city.

Yes you can come up with explanations of a sort to make it work - no they wouldn't be particularly plausible by real world standards - but it's halfings that break your suspension of disbelief?

 

[Oofta]

Um...
Basil is not native to the Americas - it hails from Southeast Asia and Central Africa.
Oregano is not native to the Americas - it is European and Mediterranean in origin.
Marjoram is not native to the Americas - it is indigenous to the Mediterranean.
Rosemary, Thyme, Lavender, Savory, Sage - none of these is native to the Americas. Nor are apples.

These were all imports... via trade.

We also have fantasy land with potatoes, tomatoes and so on. Besides it's not like halflings never trade. Just that they don't rely on trade to live ... at least according to MToF. Personally I view that book as one option specifically for FR.

 

[Gammadoodler]

and that would be fine were it not the very people who ridiculed & dismissed the very idea that halflings should be at least as concerned about dangerous monsters as their historical counterparts were about dangerous animals when the problem was dismissed with an unbelievable litany of not engaging in trade, engaging in trade but it's not trade, shunning the wheel & carts/wagons to bring crops to a market in small enough volumes to carry it by mule on foot through nonrepeating wilderness routes that avoid making a path that a bandit ranger could find.

The initial dismissal was not credible and it's too late to go back to "the setting is imaginary" once the idea of monsters was dismissed with scorn as if monsters existing in numbers greater than zero in the world turned it into some ultra deadly death world

I've not been involved in that part of the back and forth. That said, it seems that the underlying argument for why they cannot exist as they do is.."well that's not realistic". It's an argument I pretty consistently find unconvincing and one that is typically applied unevenly.

 

[Maxperson]

Um...
Basil is not native to the Americas - it hails from Southeast Asia and Central Africa.
Oregano is not native to the Americas - it is European and Mediterranean in origin.
Marjoram is not native to the Americas - it is indigenous to the Mediterranean.
Rosemary, Thyme, Lavender, Savory, Sage - none of these is native to the Americas. Nor are apples.

These were all imports... via trade.

I have Rosemary growing in my courtyard. Here in America. Where it came from isn't relevant to the fact that it is growing here in America now. There's no reason that Halflings couldn't be growing those herbs.

 

[Umbran]

We also have fantasy land with potatoes, tomatoes and so on. Besides it's not like halflings never trade. Just that they don't rely on trade to live ... at least according to MToF. Personally I view that book as one option specifically for FR.

I think the point remains - if you don't trade much, you don't have cosmoplitan cuisine. You have regional cuisine.

That's why we have characteristic foods of New England, the American South, Southwest, California, Midwest, and Northwest, you know. Because you don't actually get cosmopolitan about foods with just a little trade. You need a lot of trade before you food cultures begin to mix.

And that isn't limited to the US - the cuisines of Northern and Southern Italy are notably different - and it isn't like they've lacked trade any time in the past couple of millennia.

As another example... before 1900, and the blight, do you realize that grains were not the staple starch for much of the United States? Grains grow really well in the plains, of course, but in mountainous areas along the Eastern and Western coasts, chestnuts were the king of starches in many people's diets, especially if you were in lower economic classes. After chestnut blight killed off most of the supply, trade in grain rose considerably.

So, if you live on the East or West coast of the US, historically speaking you owe your bread... to trade.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Do you imagine that sand is terribly hard to get? You do have them living in a desert growing rice.

Aaaaaaaand which nobody has said doesn't happen. They do trade. They don't trade a often or in large amounts.

Trade for what you need and nothing more is not the same as selling for profit and money. Try this experiment to see if there's a difference. The next time you go to a grocery store, bring some pillows from your house to trade for food. See if they will accept them. Then offer them money. See if they will accept it. If the grocery store will accept your pillows the same as they accept your money, I will concede that there is little difference.

Why would Halfings ever send mail when they can travel(they love to travel) home to get good food and see their parents(they love to socialize)? You're inventing problems that don't exist and then saying, "Look! Look! Problems!"

Or, maybe there are halfling messengers! What a fun idea! What a nice way to get that wanderlust out of your system while staying in contact with the community!

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the point remains - if you don't trade much, you don't have cosmoplitan cuisine. You have regional cuisine.

That's why we have characteristic foods of New England, the American South, Southwest, California, Midwest, and Northwest, you know. Because you don't actually get cosmopolitan about foods with just a little trade. You need a lot of trade before you food cultures begin to mix.

Halflings have neighbors that trade extensively.

 

[Minigiant]

So the issue with halflings is that they're hobbits?

What about Dwarves, great big cities underground that take an unbelievable effort to dig out, lack natural sunlight and vitamin d, and lack clear agricultural areas. So how you would besiege a Dwarven city? Just occupy all the land around it so they can't get access to the agriculture they would need on the surface to feed all the people in the city

Because after a day or so, the whole city marches out the mountain, armed, armored, and ready to die a glorious death.

It's right there in the book of "Stupid things Dwarfs do".