D&D General Alternate "Ability Scores"

[Oofta]

Using intelligence and wisdom as an example, I think the current stats make sense even if they are a vast simplification of reality.

For example, my brother-in-law is typical of high intelligence low wisdom. The iconic absent-minded-professor type, he's brilliant but frequently baffled. It's like his brain is so focused on one type of intelligence (in the general term) while sacrificing what most people would call common sense and the ability read people.

People like to create clean categories (species classification is an example) but the world is messy. Nothing we can create will ever be perfect, it just has to be good enough.

I think the existing ability scores are iconic and part of the D&D "brand". Slightly different labels aren't going to be inherently better, but it wouldn't be the same game if we didn't have them.

 

[Mannahnin]

Mod Note:
About that....

And, by the way, Bohr was taking steps toward genuine understanding. You might want to consider that bfore you lay about with your One True Way critiques in the future.

The "how quaint" comment about rolling ability scores wasn't toxic. It was obviously ironic, given that he immediately followed it by explicitly saying he was kidding, and that he rolls ability scores sometimes too.

 

[Charlaquin]

IQ measures how good you are at doing IQ tests.

Exactly.

 

[Reynard]

FWIW, my response was talking about "Intelligence" in terms of the game mechanic.

For example, in 5E:
View attachment 132235
Which to the point I was addressing:

Right, but many in this very thread have argued that "Intelligence" says something about the character's personality and/or behavior. THAT is why needs to get excised, not a mechanical element relating to specific tasks. Ability scores as presented imply too much about the character when all they really should do is define capability specifically as it relates to in game tasks. This is not as big an issue with the physical stats -- although Dexterity is a problem because it covers too broad a range of actions -- but they all can use and overhaul that makes that role in the game system explicit.

 

[Charlaquin]

FWIW, my response was talking about "Intelligence" in terms of the game mechanic.

For example, in 5E:
View attachment 132235
Which to the point I was addressing:

Right, and I think that’s as good a definition of “intelligence” as we’re likely to get in a game context. I approve. I just find the idea of linking your score in the “mental acuity, accuracy of recall, and ability to reason” score to an IQ score to be in poor taste.

 

[Charlaquin]

Right, but many in this very thread have argued that "Intelligence" says something about the character's personality and/or behavior. THAT is why needs to get excised, not a mechanical element relating to specific tasks. Ability scores as presented imply too much about the character when all they really should do is define capability specifically as it relates to in game tasks. This is not as big an issue with the physical stats -- although Dexterity is a problem because it covers too broad a range of actions -- but they all can use and overhaul that makes that role in the game system explicit.

Also this.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Right, but many in this very thread have argued that "Intelligence" says something about the character's personality and/or behavior. THAT is why needs to get excised, not a mechanical element relating to specific tasks. Ability scores as presented imply too much about the character when all they really should do is define capability specifically as it relates to in game tasks. This is not as big an issue with the physical stats -- although Dexterity is a problem because it covers too broad a range of actions -- but they all can use and overhaul that makes that role in the game system explicit.

Why it is an issue at all?

 

[Umbran]

The "how quaint" comment about rolling ability scores wasn't toxic. It was obviously ironic, given that he immediately followed it by explicitly saying he was kidding, and that he rolls ability scores sometimes too.

Mod Note:

Please note that the Terms and Rules lay out that you are not supposed to argue about moderation in-thread. In the future, if you want to raise a point, take it to a private message with one of the moderation staff.

 

[Oofta]

Right, but many in this very thread have argued that "Intelligence" says something about the character's personality and/or behavior. THAT is why needs to get excised, not a mechanical element relating to specific tasks. Ability scores as presented imply too much about the character when all they really should do is define capability specifically as it relates to in game tasks. This is not as big an issue with the physical stats -- although Dexterity is a problem because it covers too broad a range of actions -- but they all can use and overhaul that makes that role in the game system explicit.

Ability scores do influence personality and behavior. Not necessarily in a direct way and not always in the same way but they do have an effect. Someone who is strong but not particularly bright will likely approach problems differently than someone who is intelligent but weak. It's one of many things that affect personality.

Besides, getting rid of intelligence isn't going to change anything.

 

[Reynard]

Why it is an issue at all?

Note: I am going to assume you mean why is it an issue if ability scores are thought of as defining personality traits. If I am wrong, please clarify.

To ut it briefly: the only thing that should define how a player portrays their character is that player's desire. Not Alignment (just get rid of it already) and not ability scores. The bug lunk barbarian can absolutely have a high Intelligence, because what intelligence really is is an aptitude with recalling information and seeing connections in 5E. That is all the mechanical heft it has outside of class abilities. On top of it, bundling those things is counterintuitive to me at least: the people I know who are best at recalling information they read ten years ago are not necessarily the same people that solve a mystery.

I won't bore you with more examples. I think that one makes clear by issue.