Super hero tone and changing times

[trappedslider]

When they decide to make a hopeful, altruistic and lighter tone for Superman?

As not to derail the other thread, how do you feel about different tones for the various heroes?

I don't mind a change in tone when it's done well as natural outgrowth of the character.

 

[hawkeyefan]

It’s tough. On one hand, I feel like Superman needs to be about hope and an ideal. It needs to invoke a sense of wonder in the audience.

On the other hand....that’s really tough to pull off in this day and age.

I’m all for different takes on super heroes. I think the concept has a lot to offer and the genre can be mashed up with others to great effect.

But I think certain specific characters work best in very specific ways. Superman should not be dark and grim. Which is Snyder’s only mode, it seems. I just think it requires tools that he doesn’t quite have.

I’d say the same of the Fantastic Four at Marvel. You need to be able to do optimistic and awe-inspiring without being cheesy.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

As not to derail the other thread, how do you feel about different tones for the various heroes?

I don't mind a change in tone when it's done well as natural outgrowth of the character.

It’s tough. On one hand, I feel like Superman needs to be about hope and an ideal. It needs to invoke a sense of wonder in the audience.

On the other hand....that’s really tough to pull off in this day and age.

I’m all for different takes on super heroes. I think the concept has a lot to offer and the genre can be mashed up with others to great effect.

But I think certain specific characters work best in very specific ways. Superman should not be dark and grim. Which is Snyder’s only mode, it seems. I just think it requires tools that he doesn’t quite have.

I’d say the same of the Fantastic Four at Marvel. You need to be able to do optimistic and awe-inspiring without being cheesy.

I think that in this day and age, ESPECIALLY in this day and age we need some actual HOPE and WONDER.
I'm also for different takes on Superheroes but as long as you can still recognize them AS those heroes.
So we're in agreement here, especially on Superman.

I'm not a fan of and have NEVER been a fan of MURDERBATMAN. If have a Batman who casually kills, you basically have a better financed Frank Castle. I'm not a fan of that particular iteration of Batman at all.

My favorite Batman is from the DCAU. From Batman: The Animated Series right up through JLU. The pilot episode of Batman Beyond epitomizes why I love that particular version. When he picks up that handgun and aims it at that bad guy? His hands shaking and realizing that he got to a point where he picked up a gun and aimed it at someone? He realized that he couldn't BE Batman anymore. For ME, a Batman who KILLS isn't Batman. And for everyone who trots out the whole "well that's not realistic" I don't watch or read superheroes for realism. If you can believe that Bruce Wayne can do all of that training and but on a Batsuit and run out and fight crime and NOT at some point be killed, have his secret id exposed or anything like that? You can believe that Bats can find a way NOT to kill his opponents.

With comic books fans and superhero fans in particular there's a blood lust and need for darkness that's a little disturbing. When those stories are told in isolation like in a WATCHMEN or THE DARK KNIGHT REURNS that makes the tone something special. Especially when it has something to say about the characters themselves. But when it ALL has to play as dark? It's just Nihilism for Nihilism's sake and there's way too much of that in the real world...

 

[GreyLord]

Batman murders people now?

Is that true? That would indicate whoever is writing Batman never truly understood who he was, what he stood for, or why he existed in the first place.

I guess things change...if true though...it would mean that they sometimes change for the worse.

The biggest complaint I think I've ever had for changing a super hero can be found in one phrase which describes an abomination of people who never understood the character, their motivations, or what made the character in the first place...

"One More Day"

 

[Ulfgeir]

I love how they portrayed both Batman and Superman in Kingdom Come. Batman imo is a much darker character than Superman. That does not mean he should be killing the criminals, but for me the campy tv-series from the 60's does not work.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

Batman murders people now?

Is that true? That would indicate whoever is writing Batman never truly understood who he was, what he stood for, or why he existed in the first place.

I guess things change...if true though...it would mean that they sometimes change for the worse.

The biggest complaint I think I've ever had for changing a super hero can be found in one phrase which describes an abomination of people who never understood the character, their motivations, or what made the character in the first place...

"One More Day"

I'm referring to mostly the cinematic version of Batman and the other DC characters.

 

[Ryujin]

I love how they portrayed both Batman and Superman in Kingdom Come. Batman imo is a much darker character than Superman. That does not mean he should be killing the criminals, but for me the campy tv-series from the 60's does not work.

The best description that I ever heard about Batman and Superman was from a film maker friend of mine. He said that they're two sides of the same coin; Batman is a Night God and Superman is a Sun God.

The times have changed and so has Batman. He's gone from being a detective with some combat skills, to a vengeful killer, and everything in between depending upon the times and who is writing him. Superman has had less variation though his powers have changed, in scope. I think that the Schneider Superman was a big misstep despite there being some precedent, mostly in one-off stories.

I think that the Steve Rogers Captain America has been more consistently the Boyscout, with the exception of the Nomad detour in the mid-'70s. Fortunately that was very short lived. I don't know anyone who enjoyed that.

The past couple of decades, especially, have been more about the anti-hero than the legitimate hero. I agree with some others who sai that we need some hope.

 

[Morrus]

Batman murders people now?

Is that true? That would indicate whoever is writing Batman never truly understood who he was, what he stood for, or why he existed in the first place.

I guess things change...if true though...it would mean that they sometimes change for the worse.

He's killed in most movies, I think. Even back in Batman 1989 he blew up a chemical plant full of bad guys.

 

[Ulfgeir]

I think that the Steve Rogers Captain America has been more consistently the Boyscout, with the exception of the Nomad detour in the mid-'70s. Fortunately that was very short lived. I don't know anyone who enjoyed that.

I don't really read superhero comics now, but wasn't there quite recently a long series of Captain America, where he was actually a Hydra-agent, and had always been such. Granted it was due to reality having been rewritten through the Tessaract if I understood it correctly.

 

[Ryujin]

I don't really read superhero comics now, but wasn't there quite recently a long series of Captain America, where he was actually a Hydra-agent, and had always been such. Granted it was due to reality having been rewritten through the Tessaract if I understood it correctly.

And, as I recall, it caused huge outrage.