D&D General Old School DND talks if DND is racist.

[Charlaquin]

Today, it is a similar moral panic. Many think that D&D will influence people (kids?) to be more okay with racism in real life or with treating others differently based on ethnicity/skin color. Which, well, again... why in the world would how a fake orc in a fake world that you play in a game of make believe have ANY affect on how someone views another person in real life?

Same concept. Same arguments. Same fallacies.

Again, you misunderstand. There is no concern that D&D will influence people (kids or adults) to be more ok wit racism in real life. There is, currently, an ongoing and widespread problem with institutionalized racism in real life. Currently, D&D is uncritically echoing those attitudes and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. It should stop that.

 

[HJFudge]

Again, you misunderstand. There is no concern that D&D will influence people (kids or adults) to be more ok wit racism in real life. There is, currently, an ongoing and widespread problem with institutionalized racism in real life. Currently, D&D is uncritically echoing those attitudes and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. It should stop that.

This concern is literally what Justice and Rule just expressed.

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes...the harm (it is argued) being that such stereotypes negatively influence the player to be more okay with such attitudes.

 

[Scribe]

This concern is literally what Justice and Rule just expressed.

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes...the harm (it is argued) being that such stereotypes negatively influence the player to be more okay with such attitudes.

That is the argument, yes. How much one chooses to accept of that argument, (I dont like CoS issues, I find issue with other things less so) is up to them.

 

[HJFudge]

That is the argument, yes. How much one chooses to accept of that argument, (I dont like CoS issues, I find issue with other things less so) is up to them.

Indeed. The merits are in question, in my opinion. Again though, I am not a scientist. So, you know. Take that as you will!

 

[Charlaquin]

Forgive me a bit of a hyperbolic example, but...they used to think the earth was flat. This was, as you say, well documented and well known.

This isn’t actually true. Ancient peoples from throughout the world were well aware that the earth was round, and many even figured out its size to an impressive degree of precision. Obviously there have always been (and depressingly, still are) uneducated people who believed the world to be flat, but among the people doing the studying and documenting, the shape of the earth has been known for at least as long as people have been writing things down.

 

[Charlaquin]

This concern is literally what Justice and Rule just expressed.

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes...the harm (it is argued) being that such stereotypes negatively influence the player to be more okay with such attitudes.

Yes. They and I are in agreement.

 

[HJFudge]

Again, you misunderstand. There is no concern that D&D will influence people (kids or adults) to be more ok wit racism in real life. There is, currently, an ongoing and widespread problem with institutionalized racism in real life. Currently, D&D is uncritically echoing those attitudes and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. It should stop that.

But you just said there was no concern...

Yes. They and I are in agreement.

I do not mean to be obtuse, but I am confused. Is there or is there not a concern that D&D will influence people (kids or adults) to be more okay with racism in real life? Your first response would lead me to believe that NO, that is NOT the concern..

But your second response leads me to believe that YES, that IS your concern.

 

[Wishbone]

This concern is literally what Justice and Rule just expressed.

Perpetuating harmful stereotypes...the harm (it is argued) being that such stereotypes negatively influence the player to be more okay with such attitudes.

From a strictly self-interested perspective for WotC think of it this way:

• Hypothesis: People are communicating through various means that the product you sell contains negative stereotypes.
• Hypothesis: As a company WotC wants a player base that will last and continue to drive revenue through uncertainty (through diversity or drawing from a dedicated group or by having a new generation take up the game or better yet all of the above).
• Hypothesis: Expressing negative stereotypes that members of certain populations might reasonably assume refer to people like themselves, friends, families, or recognized societal groups would be bad because you're cutting off a potential revenue stream in people turned off by expressing the negative stereotypes that might offend them even if we can somehow justify these stereotypes with lore given time.
• Hypothesis: Media stories that "D&D is racist" creates bad buzz—negative word of mouth.
• Hypothesis: Something must be done to avoid bad headlines and it would be good to continue to broaden the player base while doing so.

 

[HJFudge]

From a strictly self-interested perspective for WotC think of it this way:

• Hypothesis: People are communicating through various means that the product you sell contains negative stereotypes.
• Hypothesis: As a company WotC wants a player base that will last and continue to drive revenue through uncertainty (through diversity or drawing from a dedicated group or by having a new generation take up the game or better yet all of the above).
• Hypothesis: Expressing negative stereotypes that members of certain populations might reasonably assume refer to people like themselves, friends, families, or recognized societal groups would be bad because you're cutting off a potential revenue stream in people turned off by expressing the negative stereotypes that might offend them even if we can somehow justify these stereotypes with lore given time.
• Hypothesis: Media stories that "D&D is racist" creates bad buzz—negative word of mouth.
• Hypothesis: Something must be done to avoid bad headlines and it would be good to continue to broaden the player base while doing so.

Oh of course. It was 100% good business sense. It is the same reason that they made the changes they did in 2E. It was good business sense THEN too. Its all about perspective and presentation and the almighty dollar.

 

[Charlaquin]

But you just said there was no concern...

Correct.

I do not mean to be obtuse, but I am confused. Is there or is there not a concern that D&D will influence people (kids or adults) to be more okay with racism in real life?

There is not.

Your first response would lead me to believe that NO, that is NOT the concern..But your second response leads me to believe that YES, that IS your concern.

Which is why I say you misunderstand. Let me try as plainly as I can.

Not a concern: “D&D will influence people to be more racist than they currently are.”

A concern: “Racism is an ongoing systemic issue, and D&D is currently an uncritical participant in that system.”