D&D 5E Free 60+ page Guide to Sword & Sorcery for 5E D&D

[CapnZapp]

Fair enough, but these stories (and the Conan comics by Marvel, etc) are full of examples of the protagonist getting hit in the head by a sneaky thief or lucky guard, and then captured. You could say "he ran out of hit points", and yeah, he did, but it was due to a rare/double crit, and not slow hit point attrition.

That sounds like a narrative decision and not something you'd want to leave up to chance.

If those thieves are instead monstrous spiders or deranged cannibals, you don't want the system to randomly tell you the hero's been knocked unconscious.

In fact I would argue no rpg offers great support for the "losing a fight doesn't end the story" trope, and that there's nothing in particular that suggests S&S games need to provide better support than other games.

Does Conan occasionally get captured? Yes, but so does heroes of all genres. In fiction, where the author decides the outcome of all rolls.

Is "getting captured" essential to the S&S genre, is the real question here. Only include instant death if you really believe it is, and then you should (again with respect) make it a non-optional core aspect of your game.

Cheers!

 

[xoth.publishing]

I would argue the best thing is to not to mark any of your rules as optional. Either you stand by it - "this rule is essential for my product" - in which case it should be presented as non-negotiable to your setting, or you don't and you simply leave it out, trusting DMs to find whatever generic rules options they like elsewhere.

All RPG publications contain rules that are (in practice) guidelines and suggestions, it's been that way since 1974. Every GM I've ever known or heard about has his own house rules and adjustments. You don't like something, you don't use it.

I think it's perfectly fine to include one or more optional rules and say "this is not essential, but you might want to consider it". I consider that more useful than to be dogmatic and say "go look elsewhere for suggestions".

 

[xoth.publishing]

That sounds like a narrative decision and not something you'd want to leave up to chance.

If those thieves are instead monstrous spiders or deranged cannibals, you don't want the system to randomly tell you the hero's been knocked unconscious.

But I'm not "narrating a story", I'm refereeing a game. As the GM, I'd like to be surprised, too. Of course I want the system to randomly tell me what happens. There's a big difference between a book/movie and a game (even if the game is based on a certain type of books). Without randomness and surprise, why bother?

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

But I'm not "narrating a story", I'm refereeing a game. As the GM, I'd like to be surprised, too. Of course I want the system to randomly tell me what happens. There's a big difference between a book/movie and a game (even if the game is based on a certain type of books). Without randomness and surprise, why bother?

Exactly I agree 100%. That’s why for me it’s a game. There’s a chance you may not win.
I need that bit of a danger edge in my S&S games, it feeds my imagination and puts me in the right frame of mind, changing gears slightly from standard clean high heroics of 5e. I need my games to remain thrilling at all levels. If the threat is dampened, then the drama of the moment fizzles away. Optional is optional. Can’t see a problem. If you wish to create a bit more drama and thrill in your S&S, pop it in, if it doesn’t suite keep it out. That’s a thoughtful design statement.

 

[S'mon]

Fair enough, but these stories (and the Conan comics by Marvel, etc) are full of examples of the protagonist getting hit in the head by a sneaky thief or lucky guard, and then captured. You could say "he ran out of hit points", and yeah, he did, but it was due to a rare/double crit, and not slow hit point attrition.

Oh that - that story trope really needs to be outside the combat mechanic.

What I did when I ran OGL Conan was to have such things be completely arbitrary/fiated, since they occur to 'move the story along', not part of world-sim. Whenever it happened I called it "Screwed over by Fate", and the PCs got a Fate Point in compensation, which (a) kept the players happy (b) reinforced likelihood of a genre-appropriate Heroic Comeback.

 

[S'mon]

That sounds like a narrative decision and not something you'd want to leave up to chance.

If those thieves are instead monstrous spiders or deranged cannibals, you don't want the system to randomly tell you the hero's been knocked unconscious.

Yes - the important point here is that a random-insta-kill rule will create the exact opposite feel to S&S fiction, where the hero only gets KO'd when the result is not instant death but increased dramatic opportunity. For S&S it's a terrible simulation rule. It could work for a GoT type setting where you never know if you're Arya Stark or Ed Stark.

 

[S'mon]

Exactly. That’s why for me it’s a game. There’s a chance you may not win.
I need that bit of a danger edge in my S&S games, it feeds my imagination and puts me in the right frame of mind, changing gears slightly from standard clean high heroics of 5e. I need my games to remain thrilling at all levels. If the threat is dampened, then the drama of the moment fizzles away. Optional is optional. Can’t see a problem. If you wish to create a bit more drama and thrill in your S&S, pop it in, if it doesn’t suite keep it out. That’s a thoughtful design statement.

IME the best approach to giving 5e an S&S tone is to ramp up the danger with wildly unbalanced encounters and more hard-hitting opposition. 5e Primeval Thule gets it right - where a MM Manticore is Challenge 3, a Thule Manticore is Challenge 9! Or the Challenge 11 Behir in a level 3 adventure... which my group survived unscathed by locking themselves behind a stone door while it ate the badass Gladiator NPC & her cohorts who they'd been adventuring alongside (while planning to betray for the reward money). Their one regret was there was nothing left of her when the Behir was done, so they lost out on her bounty.

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Oh that - that story trope really needs to be outside the combat mechanic.

What I did when I ran OGL Conan was to have such things be completely arbitrary/fiated, since they occur to 'move the story along', not part of world-sim. Whenever it happened I called it "Screwed over by Fate", and the PCs got a Fate Point in compensation, which (a) kept the players happy (b) reinforced likelihood of a genre-appropriate Heroic Comeback.

That’s cool as well. But no harm in giving an optional tool for gamers who have differing aims in their S&S games. Sometimes people want to game it, sometimes you want that element of unpredictability. An assassins knife to the throat isn’t much of a threat if you know the target has the hp’s to walk away from the attack. Yes you can narrate that, but some prefer the gameist approach, and the drama that that can create in a stand off. That’s why I play these games it’s creates dilemmas, and risk through the mechanics.

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

IME the best approach to giving 5e an S&S tone is to ramp up the danger with wildly unbalanced encounters and more hard-hitting opposition. 5e Primeval Thule gets it right - where a MM Manticore is Challenge 3, a Thule Manticore is Challenge 9! Or the Challenge 11 Behir in a level 3 adventure... which my group survived unscathed by locking themselves behind a stone door while it ate the badass Gladiator NPC & her cohorts who they'd been adventuring alongside (while planning to betray for the reward money). Their one regret was there was nothing left of her when the Behir was done, so they lost out on her bounty.

Yes I like that too, I agree it’s very easy to boost monsters like that, but for me there’s certainly room for Xoths optional rule as well. It still has a function and a place for a certain approach. Don’t use it if you don’t want to, but I for one am thankful to have that suggestion as an optional rule. At the table it’s your game, no one looses.
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[Paid a bod yn dwp]

the important point here is that a random-insta-kill rule

5e death saves don’t allow instant kill. In my experience it’s a very big safety net.