D&D 5E Free 60+ page Guide to Sword & Sorcery for 5E D&D

[CapnZapp]

That’s cool as well. But no harm in giving an optional tool for gamers who have differing aims in their S&S games.

His point is that Xoth should take the opportunity to showcase S&S specific rules.

Nothing wrong with "gritty" rules.

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

His point is that Xoth should take the opportunity to showcase S&S specific rules.

Nothing wrong with "gritty" rules.

Yes IMO Xoth is showcasing S&S specific rules. There are different opinions on how to create the S&S atmosphere in a D&D game. Excellent that he’s acknowledged this with an optional rule.

 

[xoth.publishing]

Oh that - that story trope really needs to be outside the combat mechanic.

What I did when I ran OGL Conan was to have such things be completely arbitrary/fiated, since they occur to 'move the story along', not part of world-sim.

See my previous reply about "telling a story" vs "playing a game".

If you simply decide, by GM fiat, that the PC gets smacked in the head and captured, "outside the combat mechanic", to "move the story along", then you might as well invite your friends over and read a Conan story aloud to them.

I prefer to play a game, where any "story" is one that develops through emergent play, as a mix of randomness and player choice, and where I as the GM don't know how the "story" will develop. I set up situations, react to player choice, and let the dice fall where they may.

 

[S'mon]

I prefer to play a game, where any "story" is one that develops through emergent play, as a mix of randomness and player choice, and where I as the GM don't know how the "story" will develop. I set up situations, react to player choice, and let the dice fall where they may.

Me too - I only used the Fate Point thing with published adventures, and that was 16 years ago. I'm a very sandboxy GM.

But you need to understand the impact on play of your rule. Do you want the PCs to avoid combat? Or to act as if random death is always a moment away? That fits Game of Thrones and some other Low Fantasy, but not Nehwon/Conan/Elric and such S&S. (Of course you can have low fantasy grim & gritty in an S&S setting - the players just need to know they're not Conan & never wil be).

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Nehwon/Conan/Elric and such S&S. (Of course you can have low fantasy grim & gritty in an S&S setting - the players just need to know they're not Conan & never wil be).

I think that’s an over simplification. I don’t see it as black and white, there are shades in between. You can have a bit of grit and heroic at the same time, and be more heroic for it. As has been mentioned before death saves are a pretty large heroic safety net built into 5e.
The ruling doesn’t bring 5e anywhere near wfrp or even RQ levels of danger, it’s still largely the same 5e game with a bit of added (optional) spice.

 

[CapnZapp]

Please remember: the massive damage rule included in the actual Player's Guide isn't the rule discussed here (recently).

(deleted)

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

Please remember: the massive damage rule included in the actual Player's Guide isn't the rule discussed here (recently).

(deleted)

Ah ok. Crossed streams.

The instant death rule in the players guide is something that is already part of 5e. The difference with the (optional) rule, is that it unties the chances of dying instantly from a direct correlation with the amount of hp’s you have.
This has the effect of actually making you much less prone to instant death in the beginning levels, but then it flattens out a little. There’s still the level bonus increase, so you do have that increasing greater ability to thwart death (becoming more heroic), but not at the same rate as the PHB.
Again this strikes me (excuse the pun) as a more gritty but still heroic ruling. There’s a balance in there, with lower levels getting a big boost, then a gradual increase in survivability, which reflects an S&S with a pinch more grit, but still modelling heroic progression...just not at the same level as standard 5e which quickly sweeps up into super heroic.
Again really easy to ignore that rule (though instant death will be much more likely at low levels).
Personally I’m fine with it and will use it in my games. Very happy to have that optional suggestion as it fits with the balance of grit (not too much) and heroism in the S&S I’d like to play. I want hero’s, but not super high fantasy hero’s.

These optional rules makes the game accessible to me. Everyone is a winner.

 

[CapnZapp]

Ah ok. Crossed streams.

The instant death rule in the players guide is something that is already part of 5e. The difference with the (optional) rule, is that it unties the chances of dying instantly from a direct correlation with the amount of hp’s you have.
This has the effect of actually making you much less prone to instant death in the beginning levels, but then it flattens out a little. There’s still the level bonus increase, so you do have that increasing greater ability to thwart death (becoming more heroic), but not at the same rate as the PHB.
Again this strikes me (excuse the pun) as a more gritty but still heroic ruling. There’s a balance in there, with lower levels getting a big boost, then a gradual increase in survivability, which reflects an S&S with a pinch more grit, but still modelling heroic progression...just not at the same level as standard 5e which quickly sweeps up into super heroic.
Again really easy to ignore that rule (though instant death will be much more likely at low levels).
Personally I’m fine with it and will use it in my games. Very happy to have that optional suggestion as it fits with the balance of grit (not too much) and heroism in the S&S I’d like to play. I want hero’s, but not super high fantasy hero’s.

These optional rules makes the game accessible to me. Everyone is a winner.

Again, I beg to differ. The instant death rule in the players guide is decidedly different from the core PHB rule.

The Xoth rule makes "low on hit points" an extremely risky state to be in for characters of every level.
The core PHB rule on the other hand can practically be forgotten about after the very lowest levels. And at level 1 or 2, you are so fragile anyway there is little need for extra ways to die.

 

[CapnZapp]

The point is that neither variant accomplishes the stated goal, and I quote, "In sword and sorcery stories, the protagonists regularly kill their foes with a single well-placed hit."

(The other point is that while "In sword and sorcery stories, the protagonists regularly kill their foes with a single well-placed hit" might well be true, but the reverse isn't. This phrase suggests a mook rule reminiscent of 4th Edition would much more directly and accurately accomplish the stated goal.

But I (and S'mon) have already made a futile attempt to argue what you say you want is not what your suggested rules actually accomplishes )

 

[Paid a bod yn dwp]

(The other point is that while "In sword and sorcery stories, the protagonists regularly kill their foes with a single well-placed hit" might well be true, but the reverse isn't.

There’s clearly a spectrum of different approaches possible which emphasis different aspects of S&S, as evidenced by our discussions here. Yours and Simons suggestions are valid, but so are approaches that emphasis a bit more grit, danger, and unpredictability.
As it stands both approaches are accommodated comfortably, so I really don’t see the problem. The rules suggestions are optional, so your preferred game mode is still the default.

Personally I think the modified instant death rule does do a good job of illustrating the difference in world presumptions in relation to standard D&D. I certainly don’t see it as a failure of S&S rule design as you do. S&S genre is a broad church so to speak, and there’s room for alternative approaches as Xoth has thoughtfully catered for.

Back to your point about mooks. A rule that enhances the mook aspect (player facing) could be the use of inspiration on a critical to trigger the one-shot take down.

Though I still like the danger and element of unpredictability in Xoths suggestion for the second critical roll. I think it emphasises a gaming aspect that the world can be a dangerous unpredictable place. But the balance is no where near wfrp grit, so I thinks it’s pitched at the right level for a slightly darker dangerous S&S 5e game.

Regarding future rule suggestions - We know changing major 5e rules assumptions like weapons damage output, and amount of hps is off the cards, so that’s at least a good way to help focus minds on any other future rule suggestions.