D&D 5E Do you allow a spell to be identified before counterspelling?

[jasper]

I am AL DM. so I tell the spell but not if it is upcasted. Yes it kind of video gaming but they are burning a spell slot. And since some modules don't allow short/long rests it does affect later encounters.

 

[aco175]

I just tell them unless some rare spell or non-PHB. It goes back to threads on PCs knowing that fire affects a troll and how far can someone see with a torch and such. The PCs would have grown up in that world and trained in these things. Spellcasters are the only ones that can counterspell at 5th level which should mean something. Summers at Mage Camp would have had a class on the teacher saying, "If you see someone pulling out bat crap and saying these words..."- Counterspell.

There is also the fairness of the DM knowing the spell the players are casting and if I want the bad guy to use his counterspell. If a player starts to tell me he is casting a spell and checking if I want to counter it before he tells me what spell is being cast, I would have problems with him. "I'm wiggling my fingers and it could be magic missile, but it could be fireball- what are you going to do DM." His PC would likely be targeted, a lot.

 

[Blue]

I tried 3 different houserules for counterspell in 3 different games, and finally just banned it outright. I hated the spell, and since the ban I have never once looked back.

ORIGINAL: What was the problem with it? It's rather easy for a caster to avoid, and intelligent casters (both PC and opposition) should be taking those precautions when they can.

EDIT: I see from a later post that the issue was that the players were counterspelling all the time, and you disliked counterspelling them as it negates their action and wastes a slot.

Just like it seems every attacker knows about area of effect and spreads out, many/most casters able to cast 3rd+ level spells should probably know of Counterspell. And just like spreading out, there are tricks they can use to avoid it that should be standard nature. Here's a few easy ones.

• Range is only 60', many spells are longer than that.
• If you can't observe the casting you can't counterspell it. Subtle metamagic is an easy one. Invisibility works if there are no verbal components.
• Move out of line-of-site, Ready a spell (which explicitly casts it) to trigger when you can see a foe, move back. This also uses their reaction, so they can't Counterspell back.
• A caster only has a single reaction per round. If you have multiple casters on your side, use this. Will they disable an earlier spell and let you unleash a big one, or not in which case use a lesser spell. Or if they use reaction for Shield, Absorb Elements, Hellish Rebuke or something else.
• A caster only has a set number of slots - run them down. This works best against PCs, since foe casters usually only have a single combat a day to worry about.

 

[Blue]

I've only experienced this on the player side, but usually neither I as DM nor the DMs I have had speak in spell names when describing the action. It might be "It gestures and three bolts of force fly out striking Gumar in the chest." but generally not "it casts magic missile, three bolts, all at Gumar." But that would be completely normal on the PC end to communicate to the DM your action "I cast magic missile, three bolts all at the hag."

Once you can see the three bolts, it's too late to Counterspell. The effect of what is happening occurs after the completion of casting.

 

[Stalker0]

ORIGINAL: What was the problem with it? It's rather easy for a caster to avoid, and intelligent casters (both PC and opposition) should be taking those precautions when they can.

EDIT: I see from a later post that the issue was that the players were counterspelling all the time, and you disliked counterspelling them as it negates their action and wastes a slot.

Just like it seems every attacker knows about area of effect and spreads out, many/most casters able to cast 3rd+ level spells should probably know of Counterspell. And just like spreading out, there are tricks they can use to avoid it.

A lot of my fights were in dungeon / room scenarios, so getting out of range was often not an option.

and the tactics was part of the issue, I was tired of having all of my caster fights having to use the same tricks over and over because of one spell.

 

[Blue]

A lot of my fights were in dungeon / room scenarios, so getting out of range was often not an option.

and the tactics was part of the issue, I was tired of having all of my caster fights having to use the same tricks over and over because of one spell.

Why? Most intelligent foes will spread out because of area effects, they are adjusting their behavior due to the presence of magic. That casters, the most magical, are the ones most likely to have their behavior impacted by magic.

 

[MGibster]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted to hear that Counterspell isn't used in some of your campaigns. In every campaign I've run, Counterspell has been a very popular spell. I just tell the PCs what I'm casting and let them decide whether or not they want to use Counterspell. But I do the same thing to them and have the bad guys cast Counterspell after being told what's being cast.

 

[iserith]

I look at it this way: Every counterspell is one fewer haste that adventuring day (unless they burn higher-level slots at some point). So I'm not bothered by it. Certainly not enough to implement checks to identify spells.

 

[dave2008]

I use the 3e rules here, because the 5e PHB has no guidance and the Xanathar's rules here are totally stupid.

As long as the counterspeller can see (somatic component) and/or hear (verbal component) the baddy casting the spell, the counterspeller can make an Arcana check (DC 15+spell level) to identify the spell, no action required.

Actually I think your idea makes less sense than also including a reaction as in Xanthar's. To me it is all about time. In roughly 6 seconds you get your turn + reaction. If I am taking the time to study a caster's spell, when would I also have the time then cast my own spell (on top of everything I am doing on my turn). Now, I could see circumventing this if a ready action. So if ready a spell casting and then use my reaction to decipher a spell I could cast counterspell with my readied action. Also, I could see improving as you get higher in level. So at some point you can identify and cast counterspell with the same reaction if you want. I just wouldn't make that the default.

 

[TheSword]

A knowledge arcana check to identify the spell folded in with Counterspell as the reaction. It doesn’t come up enough and level 3 spell slots aren’t so widely available that it’s necessary to nerf Abjurers and wizards investing in counterspell more than that.

Having to guess the spell level without any clues is the kind of silly rule that shouldn’t need to be put in place unless players take the Michael.