WotC James Wyatt is on the Dungeons & Dragons Team Again

[Parmandur]

The problem with conspiracy theories is they aint much of a conspiracy if anyone knows about them. The conspirators are clearly incompetent! The conspiracies you should be worried about are the ones that you have never heard of. Chances are all those conspiracy theories you have heard are just a smokescreen to conceal the real conspiracy.

That's just wust the Rotary Club and Big Peanut want you to think.

 

[Hatmatter]

As others have said this is a pretty wacky conspiracy theory, but at least you called it what it was. The idea that Hasbro, of all people, were so peeved by the OGL that they were doing stuff like asking for a revised setting or rules seems pretty far-fetched, to put it mildly. That there was some suggestion that the OGL had to go though seems a lot more plausible. Everything else is better explained without resort to conspiracies. Plus, there's just no way someone who used to work there at the time wouldn't have mentioned this by now, given how much 4E was discussed.


WotC has already tried this though. Multiple times in 3E. They both had the close-to-D&D Star Wars, and d20 Modern.

The D&D chassis, and 5E is arguably worse for this than 3E or 4E, is just not good for many (if any) other genres or styles of RPG. We've seen this over and over again. Even if you went relatively narrow and made a game specifically that was less-difficult to fit to that chassis (probably planetary romance or something similar, which is not a popular genre in 2021), it's hard to see how that would make D&D more successful, rather than merely causing some small fraction of D&D's existing audience to swap to the new game.

If WotC make another pen and paper RPG, I'd expect two things from it:

1) It'd probably be Mass Effect-adjacent science fiction - i.e. science fiction but towards the more psychic powers and anti-grav exist kind of end of the scale. This very broad genre is both popular with and accessible to a large audience (including some who don't like fantasy much). They'd likely have some random concession to hard SF to make those people who love to go on about how they love hard SF and then reveal that they're massive Expanse fans (which left the realms of "hard SF" before the end of the first book/season, let alone later ones) keen on it (if I had to guess, it would be some kind of attempt to not have anti-grav despite having inertial dampers or something).

2) It'll use an entirely different system to D&D, but one very much learning from what works with 5E and other modern RPGs. I'd also expect it to be medium crunch and with significant narrative elements. By using a different system they can potentially sell even more stuff, and appeal to an audience who might not love D&D's "Levels and HP" approach (and it's those two elements which mess with D&D's ability to do most genres). I also expect they'll look at how D&D encourages longer-term engagement than some TT RPGs with the particular way levels, magic items and so on work. I don't think they'll replicate it exactly, but I'd expect a low-granularity advancement system and items/equipment that changed how characters worked and so on.

Archetype Entertainment are WotC's ex-Bioware guys (including the lead writer of ME1 and co-lead on 2) and whilst their primary goal seems to be to make a CRPG (and given they have like 28 people, that's likely 3-5 years away), I'd unsurprised if the setting, lore and perhaps most importantly art were used to also create a TT RPG based on it.

...and I would love to see anything like this...anything that would result in Wizards deploying its resources to expand the horizons of the hobby, the community, and ultimately D&D. I admit I am less interested in computer RPGs, simply because I do not play them, but anything that expands what D&D and RPG can be I would be for.

I think that a lot has transpired since d20 Modern and Wizards' Star Wars, and I have little trouble imagining a situation where, through leveraging its enormous fan base and the streaming RPG community, Wizards could succeed with other role-playing games in different genres, especially if those games were built with an ability to convert to D&D and back again in order to facilitate the kinds of genre-hopping that Gygax wrote about in the DMG and that were popular in the 1980s and early 1990s, but it's all good. I want to see Wizards innovate with settings, adventures, new types of game challenges, etc. rather than reiterating the game again in a different edition. The idea of new RPG games was one of a few examples that was meant to be an illustration of new areas of in which innovation can be pursued as opposed to revising the game rules again. There are many unexplored fields or, as I feel, fields that were explored in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, or early 2000s that may have been great ideas whose time had simply not yet come. Perhaps, during this new golden age of role-playing it is time to once again see if their time has come.

 

[billd91]

I think that a lot has transpired since d20 Modern and Wizards' Star Wars, and I have little trouble imagining a situation where, through leveraging its enormous fan base and the streaming RPG community, Wizards could succeed with other role-playing games in different genres, especially if those games were built with an ability to convert to D&D and back again in order to facilitate the kinds of genre-hopping that Gygax wrote about in the DMG and that were popular in the 1980s and early 1990s, but it's all good. I want to see Wizards innovate with settings, adventures, new types of game challenges, etc. rather than reiterating the game again in a different edition. The idea of new RPG games was one of a few examples that was meant to be an illustration of new areas of in which innovation can be pursued as opposed to revising the game rules again. There are many unexplored fields or, as I feel, fields that were explored in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, or early 2000s that may have been great ideas whose time had simply not yet come. Perhaps, during this new golden age of role-playing it is time to once again see if their time has come.

I don't really expect WotC to do much with other RPGs anymore. They seem pretty devoted to managing the 800 lb gorilla, and I don't blame them. The heyday of TSR's RPG publishing, as far as number of games designed/supported, is long gone and I don't expect it to return - not without Hasbro acquiring other RPG publishers and putting them under the WotC imprint. And I don't see that happening either since none of them have anything like the cultural profile and thus value of D&D.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I don't really expect WotC to do much with other RPGs anymore. They seem pretty devoted to managing the 800 lb gorilla, and I don't blame them. The heyday of TSR's RPG publishing, as far as number of games designed/supported, is long gone and I don't expect it to return - not without Hasbro acquiring other RPG publishers and putting them under the WotC imprint. And I don't see that happening either since none of them have anything like the cultural profile and thus value of D&D.

I think this is slightly more likely than you think, but we're probably talking years down the line. I would be unsurprised if WotC try and pick up some sort of narrative RPG of some kind, one that seems both "classy" and "safe" but also has a potentially slightly different audience profile to D&D. I also think it's nearly inevitable that, after releasing a successful AAA CRPG, they try and leverage that TT RPG-wise. If you re-use a successful setting, art and so on, you're not taking a particularly huge risk.

Wizards could succeed with other role-playing games in different genres, especially if those games were built with an ability to convert to D&D and back again in order to facilitate the kinds of genre-hopping that Gygax wrote about in the DMG and that were popular in the 1980s and early 1990s, but it's all good.

I don't think that's ever going to happen. It was a very, very popular idea in the 1980s and 1990s, to the point where TSR put out at least two RPGs designed to be able to do that, and WotC tried to do the same with d20, but it's an idea that's failed time, and time, and time again, and for good reason - generic RPGs are inherently worse at doing their genre than specific RPGs. Generic concepts can work - for example PtbA and BitD have generated dozens of RPGs using the same basic rules concepts, but they have ultra-specific takes within those RPGs, and even the actual mechanics often get tweaked significantly. D&D 5E has far too many hyper-specific concept for this to work with it though. And that's just TSR/WotC there btw failing, but countless others tried and failed or had RPGs that were sort of multiverse-oriented.

I think what history has proved at this point is, unless your system is relatively rules-light, i.e. no heavier than something like PtbA, BitD, or Spire, you probably can't even use the concepts generically, let alone anything more.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

...and I would love to see anything like this...anything that would result in Wizards deploying its resources to expand the horizons of the hobby, the community, and ultimately D&D. I admit I am less interested in computer RPGs, simply because I do not play them, but anything that expands what D&D and RPG can be I would be for.

I think that a lot has transpired since d20 Modern and Wizards' Star Wars, and I have little trouble imagining a situation where, through leveraging its enormous fan base and the streaming RPG community, Wizards could succeed with other role-playing games in different genres, especially if those games were built with an ability to convert to D&D and back again in order to facilitate the kinds of genre-hopping that Gygax wrote about in the DMG and that were popular in the 1980s and early 1990s, but it's all good. I want to see Wizards innovate with settings, adventures, new types of game challenges, etc. rather than reiterating the game again in a different edition. The idea of new RPG games was one of a few examples that was meant to be an illustration of new areas of in which innovation can be pursued as opposed to revising the game rules again. There are many unexplored fields or, as I feel, fields that were explored in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, or early 2000s that may have been great ideas whose time had simply not yet come. Perhaps, during this new golden age of role-playing it is time to once again see if their time has come.

I think the FUNDAMENTAL challenge is, from WotC's perspective there's just little upside to it: ALL other RPGs combined don't add up to 1/10th of D&D. It is effectively, from a business point of view, the entire RPG industry. What have they to gain by dominating the scraps of business left over after you eliminate D&D? There is zero business case for it. At best one could imagine other RPGs as some sort of ancillary product intended to enhance the IP of something Hasbro already owns. There seems to be little fodder there... GI Joe the RPG? Barbie the RPG? I mean, yeah, maybe you could come up with something viable from a few of their product lines, but it would probably sink without a trace on release. Given that, they'd spend practically no money on it and it would join the few other promo RPGs that have come and gone without accomplishing anything.

I mean, the only other obvious RPG candidate for WotC is M:tG, and they're already providing material to let you run D&D in those settings, it doesn't need another RPG. Honestly, TSR ran into the same problem back in the day. They released a few other games. They were well-received, but in a business sense they were really insignificant and few of them ever got a revision or any great amount of support. Nor did most of them strike me as top-notch designs that they spent a ton of effort on (a couple stood out somewhat, Top Secret, MSH, and Star Frontiers did have some success).

 

[Hatmatter]

I think the FUNDAMENTAL challenge is, from WotC's perspective there's just little upside to it: ALL other RPGs combined don't add up to 1/10th of D&D. It is effectively, from a business point of view, the entire RPG industry. What have they to gain by dominating the scraps of business left over after you eliminate D&D? There is zero business case for it. At best one could imagine other RPGs as some sort of ancillary product intended to enhance the IP of something Hasbro already owns. There seems to be little fodder there... GI Joe the RPG? Barbie the RPG? I mean, yeah, maybe you could come up with something viable from a few of their product lines, but it would probably sink without a trace on release. Given that, they'd spend practically no money on it and it would join the few other promo RPGs that have come and gone without accomplishing anything.

I mean, the only other obvious RPG candidate for WotC is M:tG, and they're already providing material to let you run D&D in those settings, it doesn't need another RPG. Honestly, TSR ran into the same problem back in the day. They released a few other games. They were well-received, but in a business sense they were really insignificant and few of them ever got a revision or any great amount of support. Nor did most of them strike me as top-notch designs that they spent a ton of effort on (a couple stood out somewhat, Top Secret, MSH, and Star Frontiers did have some success).

Well, I guess it is sword & sorcery from here on out. I love D&D so I am fine with that, but given the historic popularity of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the notion that a revamped Marvel Super Heroes (the first RPG I Game Mastered, actually, back in the 1980s) would not succeed as a forgone conclusion seems like a big assumption, especially if Wizards deployed its relationships and connections among streamers and other businesses to promote it.

But, if people seem convinced that Wizards could not have success with an RPG that is not high fantasy-based, then the people have spoken...no sense trying it.

My greater point was that I think investing resources into a new edition that requires a new PHB, DMG, MM, and new edition version of campaign settings, and other material already printed seems almost fatalistic. Returning to my original example, almost like Kevin Feige, after Endgame, said, ok, we've told our story, let's reboot the MCU. I think new areas can be explored. I already made suggestions from off the top of my head about what directions could be explored for D&D and the idea of different RPGs seemed to engender a response. My greater point is that, speaking for myself, living through new editions of everything I have purchased, played, and enjoyed would be d-e-p-r-e-s-s-i-n-g. That's all.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think the FUNDAMENTAL challenge is, from WotC's perspective there's just little upside to it: ALL other RPGs combined don't add up to 1/10th of D&D. It is effectively, from a business point of view, the entire RPG industry. What have they to gain by dominating the scraps of business left over after you eliminate D&D? There is zero business case for it. At best one could imagine other RPGs as some sort of ancillary product intended to enhance the IP of something Hasbro already owns. There seems to be little fodder there... GI Joe the RPG? Barbie the RPG? I mean, yeah, maybe you could come up with something viable from a few of their product lines, but it would probably sink without a trace on release. Given that, they'd spend practically no money on it and it would join the few other promo RPGs that have come and gone without accomplishing anything.

I mean, the only other obvious RPG candidate for WotC is M:tG, and they're already providing material to let you run D&D in those settings, it doesn't need another RPG. Honestly, TSR ran into the same problem back in the day. They released a few other games. They were well-received, but in a business sense they were really insignificant and few of them ever got a revision or any great amount of support. Nor did most of them strike me as top-notch designs that they spent a ton of effort on (a couple stood out somewhat, Top Secret, MSH, and Star Frontiers did have some success).

Also dominating all of them comes with risks. Right now if bob gets sick of wotc's style of game they can switch to something very similar made by paizo or some near d&d clone like DCC/humblewood/etc; if all of those were made by wotc then bob is going to be looking at some not at all very d&d like games along the lines of savage worlds/fate/pbta/etc.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Also dominating all of them comes with risks. Right now if bob gets sick of wotc's style of game they can switch to something very similar made by paizo or some near d&d clone like DCC/humblewood/etc; if all of those were made by wotc then bob is going to be looking at some not at all very d&d like games along the lines of savage worlds/fate/pbta/etc.

I think, beyond that even, WotC clearly recognizes that the health of the RPG industry depends heavily on a fairly small cadre of dedicated creative players and designers. Without them, even D&D will do poorly. To utterly dominate the industry and drive out everyone that isn't working for them or a contributor to them, isn't good for that industry. While Paizo et al may be almost insignificant in terms of business, they are still vital to the MARKET. So the choice is even more stark, dominate the market and make 10% more share off a 4x smaller market, or leave well enough alone and just continue to live off the fattest part. And lets not forget to give them their due, WotC is very supportive of the whole industry in every way basically. I think ONLY making one hugely popular RPG is, effectively, part of that support!

 

[Hatmatter]

I think, beyond that even, WotC clearly recognizes that the health of the RPG industry depends heavily on a fairly small cadre of dedicated creative players and designers. Without them, even D&D will do poorly. To utterly dominate the industry and drive out everyone that isn't working for them or a contributor to them, isn't good for that industry. While Paizo et al may be almost insignificant in terms of business, they are still vital to the MARKET. So the choice is even more stark, dominate the market and make 10% more share off a 4x smaller market, or leave well enough alone and just continue to live off the fattest part. And lets not forget to give them their due, WotC is very supportive of the whole industry in every way basically. I think ONLY making one hugely popular RPG is, effectively, part of that support!

Yes, I have been impressed with how Wizards supports the community, local game stores, and the gobby in general.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well, I guess it is sword & sorcery from here on out. I love D&D so I am fine with that, but given the historic popularity of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the notion that a revamped Marvel Super Heroes (the first RPG I Game Mastered, actually, back in the 1980s) would not succeed as a forgone conclusion seems like a big assumption, especially if Wizards deployed its relationships and connections among streamers and other businesses to promote it.

But, if people seem convinced that Wizards could not have success with an RPG that is not high fantasy-based, then the people have spoken...no sense trying it.

My greater point was that I think investing resources into a new edition that requires a new PHB, DMG, MM, and new edition version of campaign settings, and other material already printed seems almost fatalistic. Returning to my original example, almost like Kevin Feige, after Endgame, said, ok, we've told our story, let's reboot the MCU. I think new areas can be explored. I already made suggestions from off the top of my head about what directions could be explored for D&D and the idea of different RPGs seemed to engender a response. My greater point is that, speaking for myself, living through new editions of everything I have purchased, played, and enjoyed would be d-e-p-r-e-s-s-i-n-g. That's all.

Isn't there already an MCU-licensed game, at least one that has a license to use Marvel properties. I don't play supers these days, so forgive my ignorance. I doubt it has sales that are even a flea on the back of D&D. Sure, Hasbro might easily scoop up that license, and then do what...? Make about as much in a year as their least popular D&D supplement now makes in a month? Yes, it could be a great critical success as an RPG, and even potentially make a little money. The 'little' is the key there. Honestly, there's a good reason I never got into pro game design, there is almost ZERO money in it! I could easily have gone and worked for Steve Jackson or TSR in the early 80's, the doors were open. You just couldn't get paid half of what engineering/software jobs offer. EVEN TSR didn't really make all that much. It was just a lot for a few guys from Lake Geneva, for a while.