D&D 5E Greyhawk: Pitching the Reboot

[FrozenNorth]

Imagine if, in the late 80s, Paramount had said, "Sure, people liked the old Star Trek. But who really cares any more? Let's just keep milking the olds with Spock ears. Don't bother rebooting it. Who would care about a New Generation?" Well, they would have lost some valuable IP and history. Not to mention an entire streaming service (seriously, CBS All Access and Paramount+ are basically carried by Star Trek and 90s nostalgia.... SHUT UP BEAVIS!)

Isn’t that exactly what was done? ST:TNG is different from ST, and all of the settings since Greyhawk are different than Greyhawk.

What you are saying is kind of like if in 2009, Paramount executives said “You know, we have Next Gen, DS9, Voyager and even Enterprise, but what I think people really want is for us to reboot the original series with a younger and hotter cast!”

Obviously, something like that would never happen, but I suspect if it did, many of the people who like ST might be justifiably upset with the changes made. Specifically, I suspect that they would be annoyed by the changes made to try and appeal to a broader audience, like including many more races and not restricting character classes.

 

[Mort]

It's interesting, because I'm not trying to be pithy. IIRC, you've participated in many of the Greyhawk threads, and not ... well, not in a positive manner.

Am I wrong? Am I incorrect on that? Do I misremember? Have you been leading the charge for a Greyhawk reboot? A revisitation? A renewal?

If that's the case, if I do misremember, if you are not the same person who seems to argue against it each time (and it's possible, as my memory is not perfect), then why don't you provide YOUR PITCH.

I believe you are 100% dead wrong here. I'll take a look at past comments, but I've always been very positive on a Greyhawk renewal, even re-imagining.

Since you love Greyhawk enough to keep participating, explain to me how it should be rebooted. Be part of the solution. Sound good?

Let's hear what the @Mort pitch is!

That's kind of funny. I actually find your pitch in the OP pretty good - I would pitch something pretty similar, personally.

I just don't think low magic is the correct way to go (and has nothing to do with your actual pitch).

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Isn’t that exactly what was done? ST:TNG is different from ST, and all of the settings since Greyhawk are different than Greyhawk.

What you are saying is kind of like if in 2009, Paramount executives said “You know, we have Next Gen, DS9, Voyager and even Enterprise, but what I think people really want is for us to reboot the original series with a younger and hotter cast!”

Obviously, something like that would never happen, but I suspect if it did, many of the people who like ST might be justifiably upset with the changes made. Specifically, I suspect that they would be annoyed by the changes made to try and appeal to a broader audience, like including many more races and not restricting character classes.

You know, I almost feel like there is no point in writing the entire original post.

It is fascinating that the people that are most against a reboot are those who (1) didn't play it, and (2) summon the ghosts of grognards who will argue against it, despite the fact that this post was written entirely from the perspective of modernizing it.

Weird, huh? It's almost like if you post something on the internet, people will reflexively argue against it!

 

[TwoSix]

Weird, huh? It's almost like if you post something on the internet, people will reflexively argue against it!

That's not true.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

That's kind of funny. I actually find your pitch in the OP pretty good - I would pitch something pretty similar, personally.

I just don't think low magic is the correct way to go (and has nothing to do with your actual pitch).

Seriously, pitch it! That's the point of the thread. As much as I think my ideas are awesome (because they are) I'd love to hear other ideas about how people would reboot it.

 

[billd91]

The most fun I had with Greyhawk came from filling in details that the folio didn't. The descriptions of the various states and organizations were relatively short and gave me enough of a skeleton to build more details on. I know that, depending on each DM's approach, all settings are effectively like that - but Greyhawk seemed especially like that for me. And that's why it's my favorite.

 

[FrozenNorth]

You know, I almost feel like there is no point in writing the entire original post.

It is fascinating that the people that are most against a reboot are those who (1) didn't play it, and (2) summon the ghosts of grognards who will argue against it, despite the fact that this post was written entirely from the perspective of modernizing it.

Weird, huh? It's almost like if you post something on the internet, people will reflexively argue against it!

Honestly, I really don’t have a dog in this fight.

I found your ST metaphor to be a poor metaphor, because settings created since Greyhawk slot pretty well into NG, DS9 etc., which would put your argument in the position of defending the Original series reboot of 2009.

As for rebooting Greyhawk, my only point is that it shouldn’t be done by cutting out half the classes or drastically reducing races, because that is ignoring what a large portion of players (a critical mass, I would argue) like.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The most fun I had with Greyhawk came from filling in details that the folio didn't. The descriptions of the various states and organizations were relatively short and gave me enough of a skeleton to build more details on. I know that, depending on each DM's approach, all settings are effectively like that - but Greyhawk seemed especially like that for me. And that's why it's my favorite.

I happen to agree with this 110%. The original folio (and similar '83 Campaign Set) were amazing in that they were full of hooks... just pure Gygaxian hints of adventure and mystery that remained to be filled in by people's home campaigns.

That said, I don't know that this is a defining trait or approach that would work today.

 

[Mort]

Seriously, pitch it! That's the point of the thread. As much as I think my ideas are awesome (because they are) I'd love to hear other ideas about how people would reboot it.

Well as I said, I like many of the angles you propose. I'm currently running a campaign with the Scarlett Brotherhood as the big bad personally.

As for a revival?

One thing they could do is go for a smaller scale globally but a bigger scale for the characters themselves - as in The Castle Greyhawk megadungeon.

Lots of the other setting have been running away from Mega-dungeons (There a some like Dungeon of the Mad Mage, but it's been lessened).

Why not go whole hog into a big ol' Castle Greyhawk Megadungeon? Done right that could draw in a pretty decent crowd. then expand from there.

Other than of course the IP is problematic (You'd have to get permission/agreement from both Gail Gygax and @Rob Kuntz from what I understand).

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Well as I said, I like many of the angles you propose. I'm currently running a campaign with the Scarlett Brotherhood as the big bad personally.

As for a revival?

One thing they could do is go for a smaller scale globally but a bigger scale for the characters themselves - as in The Castle Greyhawk megadungeon.

Lots of the other setting have been running away from Mega-dungeons (There a some like Dungeon of the Mad Mage, but it's been lessened).

Why not go whole hog into a big ol' Castle Greyhawk Megadungeon? Done right that could draw in a pretty decent crowd. then expand from there.

Other than of course the IP is problematic (You'd have to get permission/agreement from both Gail Gygax and @Rob Kuntz from what I understand).

As much as I like the megadungeon idea, I'm not sure it provides anything distinctive about Greyhawk. You can plop a megadungeon anywhere. I'm sure that the Forgotten Realms would be more than willing to eat them whole.