D&D 5E How to make PC mobs less of a slog in combat

[THEMNGMNT]

Is the DM rolling for the Berserkers? Or is the player? I'd offload the burden on the player.

Also: lots of great advice here.

 

[MNblockhead]

As an aside, I know you're not wanting to take their toys away, but speaking generally when it comes to what you can control as DM, it's best in my view not to give out items that can summon monsters, allies, etc. It's better to avoid that problem beforehand rather than have to deal with it in the aftermath. I still leave the option to play a necromancer or bust out the animal summoning spells, but I make it very clear with the players that they need to be mindful with how much extra spotlight this takes away from everyone else and to make their choices accordingly. Eight velociraptors may seem like a hilarious gimmick until everyone's annoyed at how long your turns are taking!

I appreciate that. But I don't want to backtrack on this at this point in the game.

I would rather it acted more like spirit guardians. An area of effect whose size and damage is determined by the type of horn and instead of a saving throw it was be rolled against enemy AC.

So...I'm basically talking about a summoned swarm.

 

[MNblockhead]

I saw a great little rule idea recently that I thought was quite cool for this type of scenario.

roll one d20, assume 1/3 of them get that result, 1/3 that result -5, 1/3 result +5. If a crit occurs, only 1 crits. Assume avg damage.

do the exact same thing for saving throws

I like that. It greatly simplifies things, except that you still have to spend time determining who hits which enemy.

I think I'm leaning more towards treating the spirits summoned by horns of Valhalla as area effects. But I'll need to discuss with my players as it greatly changes the tactics.

 

[Flamestrike]

Put PC on the clock. They should be anyway.

Have minions go on the Players turn, after the Players turn ends. He gets a few seconds to move and resolve each ones action, or else they take the Dodge action and their turn ends.

In other words, palm the responsibility for tardiness over to the player.

 

[MNblockhead]

You've got players. Use them! Divide the summoned berserkers evenly amongst the PCs to control.

I've done this. It helps with keeping time per player more even in combat but still makes combat a slog overall. Also, while it gives each player more to do per round, it still removes the spot light from the PCs.

If the PCs groan at the idea, just wing it using Challenge Rating to run the ensuing battle. CR of berserkers cancel out (kill) CR of opponents. Adjust the timing in rounds for dramatic effect, but if the berserkers have more CR than the opponents, the battle ends. If the berserkers have less CR, they all return to Valhalla (why, exactly, is that placename in the PHB?) and the opponents' hit points are reduced to a percentage of the difference in CR.

E.g. 10 warrior spirits, 2 CR, appear to attack 5 trolls, 5 CR. That's 10 x 2 spirits vs. 5 x 5 trolls. You let a round or two pass while the spirits look like they're trying hard, but getting pretty well pummeled, and the PCs continue to fight. The difference of 20 - 25 is 5 in favor of the trolls, which is 1/5 of the original troll strength (25 / 5). So after two rounds, one troll remains, and its hit points don't matter because it's going to be running for the hills!

Hmm...I need to play around with this. If they use the Berserker spirits to mop up enemy mobs, I think this approach makes a lot of sense.

When they use them to increase DPR against a single powerful foe, however, I would probably just bull roll the and use average damage for the hits.

 

[MNblockhead]

These. The Sly Flourish calculator is based on the DMG rules. It assumes average damage and tells you exactly how many hit and how much damage is done.

If you don't want to do that, or deal with numbers at all, I'd suggest running large groups of NPCs against each other as simple narration. Decide what should happen and go with it. Be sure to let the PCs feel like their horns are doing some good, but don't let them simply win every fight with them.

The DMG rules don't save much time unless they focus their attacks. If they start splitting up, it doesn't help much.

A lot of their utility, is battlefield control.

 

[MNblockhead]

Is the DM rolling for the Berserkers? Or is the player? I'd offload the burden on the player.

Also: lots of great advice here.

Players roll.

 

[MNblockhead]

Put PC on the clock. They should be anyway.

Have minions go on the Players turn, after the Players turn ends. He gets a few seconds to move and resolve each ones action, or else they take the Dodge action and their turn ends.

In other words, palm the responsibility for tardiness over to the player.

But the delay is mostly me applying damage. It is easy for the player to roll 10 d20s, say how many hit, and we use average damage. But I still have to apply that damage to the enemies.

If I use the VTT to auto apply damage, it would save me time, but actually slows things down MUCH more because then the player has to click on each berserker, target who they should attack, and roll one-by-one.

This is one area where I don't see VTTs providing much help. Many VTTs do great with area of effect damage, but I don't know of any that let me select multiple tokens and have them attack a target at once. But even if they did, that still wouldn't help in situations where they are splitting up and engaging multiple enemies rather than focusing attacks.

 

[Flamestrike]

But the delay is mostly me applying damage. It is easy for the player to roll 10 d20s, say how many hit, and we use average damage. But I still have to apply that damage to the enemies.

If I use the VTT to auto apply damage, it would save me time, but actually slows things down MUCH more because then the player has to click on each berserker, target who they should attack, and roll one-by-one.

Use a pencil and paper?