loverdrive
Prophet of the profane (She/Her)
Oh, also they absolutely opaquely decide on the outcome. You know, the most important thing in a resolution system.
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D&D 5E D&D compared to Bespoke Genre TTRPGs
- Thread starter doctorbadwolf
- Start date
Nope. A DM who calls for a roll and ignores the results is ignoring the rules. While the DM has the authority to ignore the rules broadly, I don't think that extends to ignoring the results of a roll.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Actually, I'm not even that interested in descriptions of 'difficulty' as abstract from level anymore. HoML has a very simple chart, it indicates a DC for each level (I call them DVs, but whatever). So you simply say "this is a level 5 task" and in comparison to your own level you will know what to expect. Tasks of your level are normally achievable results which are non-trivial but within reach of any PC of that level. If you go up 5 levels, you have a task that is unlikely to be achieved by a character without any additional bonuses, and if you go down 5 levels the tasks should be effectively too easy to dice for in most cases. It works great.
Additionally the bonus model is pretty close to 4e in general terms. There is a linearly increasing bonus and DC increase which keep pace with each other. Every PC will get a bit better at most things, though they will lose some ground vs specialists at higher levels, and those specialists will be even better at relatively equivalent difficulty tasks than at level 1, though again not be a vast amount.
OTOH there are only 20 levels in HoML, which has SOME similar effects to BA in that the level range where things can be taken on is about similar to 4e, but since it is in a 1/3 smaller total range from "newly minted hero" to "demi-god" you can take on more of the game's elements at any given level, as a percentage. That is a 5th level PC could interact with level 1 stuff (very easy but could trip you up now and then) to level 10 stuff, which will be Legendary monsters and such, though certainly not the very deadliest/toughest of them (and Mythic stuff is still well beyond you, you're not going to toss with gods as a level 5 Heroic figure).
I am not sure I understand what you are even trying to say here. I would simply reply that the system as you conceive it doesn't seem to have any switches at all. Yes, you can make it pretty much impossible to pass most checks for your PCs, so can a 4e DM or myself running HoML.
The real 'dial' in any case is not the DCs it is THE FICTION. So, if you depict level 1 PCs climbing trees, then how that plays out is, the top level could be PCs climbing Mount Everest, or it could be the PCs climbing Mount Celestia in the middle of a huge storm while being assaulted by Storm Titans. One will make the PCs look tough, the other will be almost godlike Mythic heroes writing themselves into the history books. Of course, the numbers will be the same either way. I think it would be hard to do that with 5e, there is simply not a great enough range of numbers for the later scenario to work. It is pretty much casting itself as a game which can only depict action that matches things real people could attempt (at least in the ability check realm, combat is a whole other story).
Now, you can tweak other dimensions of the game as well, but it is a LOT easier to have a single 'dial' there. That was something I liked about 4e's approach, and why in some ways it is really a very flexible system.
@Manbearcat I think I'm disputing your last post here
Thomas Shey
Legend
As I've noted before, some of the most extreme Rulings Not Rules proponents are hard to see in any other light.
Thomas Shey
Legend
Well, except the problem is if most of the numerical results are only going on in his head, there's no way to tell if he's following them or not. You don't know the target number and you don't know the expected result, so you're effectively feeding a value into a black box.
I didn't say it was player-facing if he was breaking the rules (though I suspect with enough instances a pattern will probably emerge for the players to notice). I said he was breaking the rules.
they also decide if it is possible in addition to the DC. That very much works out to "dm decides". Even the DC is left entirely to the GM thanks to wotc providing a pointless table lacking enough datapoints to apply it in any meaningful sense. A player can not estimate the difficulty of doing something or guess their rough chance of success
Campbell
Relaxed Intensity
I think it's possible to bring a shared expectation that the DM should make their rulings firmly with only the fiction in mind (as was the original expectation in older versions of the game). I'm not seeing that as a general expectation in the DMG what with all the lead storyteller language it seems enamored with.
I do think the vast majority of DMs try to respect the players' dice rolls, but more in a improv storyteller fashion where you are still skewing results in certain directions. I know you do not run the game that way, but I have encountered it all over the place. I think it's quite compatible with the DMG.
loverdrive
Prophet of the profane (She/Her)
I didn't say about ignoring the results.
How success look like? How fail looks like?
Let's say, city watch shows up to a scene of a fight between the party and the NPCs. My character tries to play a damsel in distress, attracting the attention of the watchmen with "HEEELP" yells.
The GM calls for a Deception check (or Persuasion, or flat Charisma, doesn't matter — that's negotiable). Cool. I beat the DC. Cool.
Then what? Is my success that they rush to help, or that they don't just kick everyone's ass and then sort us out later? Or maybe they'll help, but only for a generous bribe?
Hell if I know. Before the GM tells me, all of the outcomes are possible.
I said the DM decides if the roll is necessary. I said the DM stops deciding once the dice are rolled.
Would more guidance on setting DCs be good? Yes. Is it a good idea to have more DCs be player-facing? Yes. Neither of those has anything to do with when the DM stops deciding.
