WotC 2020 Was The Best Year Ever For Dungeons & Dragons

[Sacrosanct]

And the people who loved 4th Ed would say they liked the advertisements and wish the gnome would come back


How every single podcast, article, and interview was all "hey, this is a thing we changed"
That was the focus. Throw out the old and embrace the hip as Parmandur said

So....no specifics then?

 

[MichaelSomething]

Let me list things WOTC can do to appeal to the old crowd:

More polearms!
Gygaxian prose!
More death traps!
Gold for XP!
Make people roll stats 3d6 in order!
Class level limits based off race!
More subsystems like weapon speeds and domains!
Bring back the NPC classes!
Put in Gotcha monsters!
Take away cantrips!
More resource management!
Bring back logistical challenges!
Bring back save or die!

 

[Cadence]

Let me list things WOTC can do to appeal to the old crowd:

More polearms!
Gygaxian prose!
More death traps!
Gold for XP!
Make people roll stats 3d6 in order!
Class level limits based off race!
More subsystems like weapon speeds and domains!
Bring back the NPC classes!
Put in Gotcha monsters!
Take away cantrips!
More resource management!
Bring back logistical challenges!
Bring back save or die!

Would anything tick off a group of older players more than a 1.5 that took 1e and gave it a "canonical update" for the OSR crowd?

 

[see]

and Tasha's which prominently features a 70's NPC.

No, it doesn't. It features a character from 2007.

Iggwilv dates to 1982's The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth, which is not 1970s, either.

But the retcon where the real-life name of a little girl who wrote Gary Gygax with a spell suggestion that got published in Dragon #67 (also in the 1980s, not the 1970s) was attached to Iggwilv dates to 2007, and the in-charatcter material in Tasha's "focuses on the wizard before her Iggwilv transformation" (to quote Dragon+ 33).

 

[Sacrosanct]

Let me list things WOTC can do to appeal to the old crowd:

More polearms!
Gygaxian prose!
More death traps!
Gold for XP!
Make people roll stats 3d6 in order!
Class level limits based off race!
More subsystems like weapon speeds and domains!
Bring back the NPC classes!
Put in Gotcha monsters!
Take away cantrips!
More resource management!
Bring back logistical challenges!
Bring back save or die!

Nah. Those are stereotypes. As an old time gamer who also designs old school games, all you really need are these (opinions vary of course, and I swear I already listed this. Perhaps in another thread...)

rulings over rules. That means you don’t have a ton of rules the players have to learn. You have guidelines and the framework, but on the fly rulings are made based on those guidelines so as not to slow down gameplay or inadvertently influence players to not try something if they don’t have a skill or the highest skill for it

zero to hero path. Low level characters are only slightly better than commoners, but through cautious play, can achieve great power

not all encounters are assumed to beatable. The world is living, meaning just because the party is level 3, the dragon in the mountains doesn’t suddenly become CR manageable.

yes, save or die is one of them, and about the only one on the list that is right. You shouldn’t keep getting multiple save attempts to resist a Medusa’s gaze. It makes the PCs more cautious and don’t just Zerg through the dungeon. However, true to old school fashion, if there are save or die creatures or traps, there is almost always also something to mitigate that. Scrolls of protection, or stone to flesh, etc can be found by the thorough party.

fast character creation along with niche protection. It’s a team game. One person is the QB, one the RB, etc. not everyone has to be the QB all the time, in all scenarios. Classes shine at different times.

sandbox and players have control. The DM is a referee, not someone who plays favorites. The players have complete control to go wherever they want. Yes, even if it’s a bad choice lol. The story is created a you go, rather than predetermined. That’s why you rarely see old school PCs with extensive backstories. The heroics are created as you play. And why you don’t see many old school players make builds in advance to high levels. It’s all determined based on what’s happening in the game at the time you level up.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Interestingly enough, a couple weeks ago Frank Mentzer (pretty sure it was him) said xp for treasure was the first rule they threw out in their own games

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Nah. Those are stereotypes. As an old time gamer who also designs old school games, all you really need are these (opinions vary of course, and I swear I already listed this. Perhaps in another thread...)

rulings over rules. That means you don’t have a ton of rules the players have to learn. You have guidelines and the framework, but on the fly rulings are made based on those guidelines so as not to slow down gameplay or inadvertently influence players to not try something if they don’t have a skill or the highest skill for it

zero to hero path. Low level characters are only slightly better than commoners, but through cautious play, can achieve great power

not all encounters are assumed to beatable. The world is living, meaning just because the party is level 3, the dragon in the mountains doesn’t suddenly become CR manageable.

yes, save or die is one of them, and about the only one on the list that is right. You shouldn’t keep getting multiple save attempts to resist a Medusa’s gaze. It makes the PCs more cautious and don’t just Zerg through the dungeon. However, true to old school fashion, if there are save or die creatures or traps, there is almost always also something to mitigate that. Scrolls of protection, or stone to flesh, etc can be found by the thorough party.

fast character creation along with niche protection. It’s a team game. One person is the QB, one the RB, etc. not everyone has to be the QB all the time, in all scenarios. Classes shine at different times.

sandbox and players have control. The DM is a referee, not someone who plays favorites. The players have complete control to go wherever they want. Yes, even if it’s a bad choice lol. The story is created a you go, rather than predetermined. That’s why you rarely see old school PCs with extensive backstories. The heroics are created as you play. And why you don’t see many old school players make builds in advance to high levels. It’s all determined based on what’s happening in the game at the time you level up.

Kind of funny—-we liked longswords and great swords and could only wonder about the large list of pole arms. It made the game feel grounded in something but it was not a big part of our games.

we didn’t use armor vs weapon tables even once.

what we loved was the illusion of freedom and caches of treasure....

and emergent play was always great—-we made a lot of choices along the way though I often did write some character history per my DM’s preferences.

Our attitude—-that we still have—-is fun is the goal for everyone but our individual selves don’t trump the campaign. The story I want mightwill probably happen because we work with the DM. But the real story is what unfolds organically during play.

holding a bridge against a horde successfully is more meaningful than me calling my character brave.

and if we die, it sucks but it’s as possible as it is unlikely if we are careful and work together.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Right
GHOSTS OF SALTMARSH from 2019. Early 2019
With work started on that in 2018, if not late 2017

Before they started being aware of how many new gamers were coming into the game
Instead of doing another reprint this year they did an anthology of new adventures by new writers
GHOSTS might be the last reprint and the last book where newcomers aren't they key audience

Right, they had absolutely no idea how many new players were coming to D&D 5e until under 2 years ago. I guess they never heard of Critical Role before then, either, so they had no idea what the Tal'dorei Campaign Guide was and how successful it was, right? It was just a coincidence that they hired Matt Mercer to work on Waterdeep: Dragon Heist with them, not at all connected to how popular his D&D live stream was and how many new players it was bringing to the hobby, right?

WotC has known for years how many new players D&D 5e was gaining (due in no small part to Critical Role), well before Ghosts of Saltmarsh came out.

 

[Parmandur]

Right, they had absolutely no idea how many new players were coming to D&D 5e until under 2 years ago. I guess they never heard of Critical Role before then, either, so they had no idea what the Tal'dorei Campaign Guide was and how successful it was, right? It was just a coincidence that they hired Matt Mercer to work on Waterdeep: Dragon Heist with them, not at all connected to how popular his D&D live stream was and how many new players it was bringing to the hobby, right?

WotC has known for years how many new players D&D 5e was gaining (due in no small part to Critical Role), well before Ghosts of Saltmarsh came out.

Between Curse of Strahd, Tales from the Yawninf Portal, and Ghosts of Saltmarsh, WotC has adequately proven the compatibility of older material with modern audiences when done well.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If you're looking for old school stuff to add to 5th Edition, may I remind you of Frog God Games?

5th Edition – Frog God Games

www.froggodgames.com