ZEITGEIST Draçon de Mer

jeffh · Jun 3, 2021

Hi, all. I'm reading ahead to the third adventure and I'm having trouble reconciling the map of il Draçon de Mer with the text. Where are the quarters that are mentioned in the Aftermath section? Where could the ramp mentioned under Tactics possibly be stored? For that matter where do people sleep when they're off duty? About 15 or 16 people would need accommodation at any given time, not even counting Duvall and her party (who are explicitly stated to have their own quarters), and I only see places for about six. Should there be a third deck or something? Are the maps in the book even the right ones? Or is there some important detail I'm missing on these tiny, low contrast maps?

(I'm using the ones on page 252 of book 1 of the 4E collected edition, in case this differs between versions. A physical copy is in front of me as I write this, from somewhere where I can't easily access, say, the Roll20 version which I also have.)

skotothalamos · Jun 3, 2021

Yeah, that’s a bad map.

As I recall (it’s been 8 years or so), I just used a random ship map I already had that made more sense, with cabins fore and aft, etc.

RangerWickett · Jun 3, 2021

I will admit to having a bit of a thin budget for maps, and I think we may have just reused something from the Admiral o' the High Seas book (and in hindsight I'm not too thrilled with the mechanics of that, though I liked the rest of the content). Any large ship with a gundeck would certainly have a lower deck with crew quarters, or at least hammocks, and then below that likely a hold or just a bilge.

Tormyr · Jun 4, 2021

Even the Roll20 version only has two decks. Only the named people get quarters. Everyone else sleeps with the guns when it isn't their shift.

Andrew Moreton · Jun 5, 2021

If you visit sailing ships even the large Frigates and HMS Victory only have a very few cabins for officers, the crew live, eat and sleep on the Gun Deck(s) and on larger ships like frigates and ships of the line the deck beneath. The same is pretty much true for early ironclads certainly HMS Warrior and the later USS Olympia have the same arrangements. You don't get a lot of internal compartments giving crew berths until early 20th century ships. Most of a warships crew are there to serve the guns with an overstrngth crew for the rigging to allow working it in bad weather and after Grape shot has killed a lot of your crew
HMS Trincomalee and USS Constitution are the two best preserved examples I know of, with HMS Unicorn as the other intact ship.
4 minute tour of HMS Trincomolee
Even the Captains cabin has gunports to allow fire at ships astern of the Frigate

jeffh · Jun 15, 2021

Andrew Moreton said:
If you visit sailing ships even the large Frigates and HMS Victory only have a very few cabins for officers, the crew live, eat and sleep on the Gun Deck(s) and on larger ships like frigates and ships of the line the deck beneath. The same is pretty much true for early ironclads certainly HMS Warrior and the later USS Olympia have the same arrangements. You don't get a lot of internal compartments giving crew berths until early 20th century ships. Most of a warships crew are there to serve the guns with an overstrngth crew for the rigging to allow working it in bad weather and after Grape shot has killed a lot of your crew
HMS Trincomalee and USS Constitution are the two best preserved examples I know of, with HMS Unicorn as the other intact ship.
4 minute tour of HMS Trincomolee
Even the Captains cabin has gunports to allow fire at ships astern of the Frigate

I'm sure that's all true but it seems beside the point. The issue was that the map doesn't match the description (including in ways that directly affect gameplay and are not just flavour text); I said nothing about whether the map or the description was more realistic.

Tormyr · Jun 15, 2021

I went back and looked at the Roll20 version, and I used the map in the PF and 4e versions of the text. The 5e version has a different map which adds some hammocks to the gun deck, but it is a smaller ship and has fewer guns.

My suggestions for your questions:

Where are the quarters that are mentioned in the Aftermath section? RangerWickett's response that there is one or two more decks makes sense.
Where could the ramp mentioned under Tactics possibly be stored? There is plenty of room along the railing for the ramp to be stored.
For that matter where do people sleep when they're off duty? On the gun deck for the crew and the berth deck/hold for the captain and guests.
Should there be a third deck or something? Yes, even smaller ships had three decks, see below.
Are the maps in the book even the right ones? Or is there some important detail I'm missing on these tiny, low contrast maps? You are using the best available map in my opinion. The dimensions are correct, and it has the right number of guns.

Looking at this link, even a smaller version of a sloop had 3 decks: surface, hold, and bilge. Our larger ship could be justified in having an extra deck just for the guns. The hold/berth deck would not usually pop up in tactical play, so it would not justify the cost of creating a map for it.
Ships - Sloop.