D&D General My Problem(s) With Halflings, and How To Create Engaging/Interesting Fantasy Races

[FrozenNorth]

Basically, your argument is:

You: Haflings are boring. They just live with humans and have no role.

Others: Here are examples from other settings where the halflings are very distinct people who aren't boring and don't live with humans.

You: Those don't count, because those halflings aren't boring.

Others: So what are you complaining about?

You: That halfings are boring and live with humans.

(Also, a hook: halflings live with humans. Why? Were there lands taken away from them, and now they're forced into Little Hobbiton ghettos? Are they happy about this?)

It seems to me that @Chaosmancer ’s point is more as follows:

Chaosmancer: The PHB halflings are so boring. They don’t really have many interesting hooks as adventurers…

Others: But Eberron and Dark Sun halflings are really interesting (even though their lore is completely different). Also, others DMs csn make up their own lore…

None of that invalidates @Chaosmancer ’s point.

 

[FrozenNorth]

I gotta say, 44 pages of "no, it isn't" and "yes, it is" has got to be approaching a record here. Has anyone's opinion shift even slightly?

No, it hasn’t.

Counterpoint: yes, it has.

 

[Hussar]

/snip
My current setting has no normal halflings as in it the halflings and elves are combined into one small kendery-elfin species called the eldri or elflings. But I was thinking another setting recently which would have higher tech level. In it the halflings would have this symbiotic relationship with humans (or perhaps even parasitic in a sense, if you ask the humans.) The halflings live among humans as overlooked underclass, as the humans generally have the same amount of respect and understanding for them than many posters in this thread. So they just live on the fringes of the society, being scrap collectors, low-level workers, swindlers and dealers, gangers living in severs etc. Humans generally don't pay much attention to them, and they basically just run their own small communes in the shadows of the human cities and villages. This also gives them freedom to engage in all sort of underhanded and shady stuff without being noticed.

There is an irony here. The fact is you flat out don't have halflings as presented in the books, and in the future, won't use halflings as presented in the books.

It's almost as if the halflings as presented are lacking

 

[Hussar]

You don't seem to.


It tells that no one in your group particularly cared for them. That's not unusual. I don't know many people who care about dwarves.

Oh, please.

There are TONS of dwarves in D&D settings that have major impact on the settings. They have entire nation states. They matter to the setting - whether it's Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, or whatever. Dwarves are a major setting element and would be virtually impossible to remove from the setting without leaving massive holes.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

There is an irony here. The fact is you flat out don't have halflings as presented in the books, and in the future, won't use halflings as presented in the books.

It's almost as if the halflings as presented are lacking

I don't use any races as they're presented in the books, I always put my own spin on things. The books are just a starting point.

 

[Faolyn]

It seems to me that @Chaosmancer ’s point is more as follows:

Chaosmancer: The PHB halflings are so boring. They don’t really have many interesting hooks as adventurers…

Others: But Eberron and Dark Sun halflings are really interesting (even though their lore is completely different). Also, others DMs csn make up their own lore…

None of that invalidates @Chaosmancer ’s point.

That is true. However, 5.5e/6e isn't going to come out at any point in the immediate future. I'm trying to show even without radical additions like in Eberron or Dark Sun, their lore provides interesting hints.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Oh, please.

There are TONS of dwarves in D&D settings that have major impact on the settings. They have entire nation states. They matter to the setting - whether it's Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, or whatever. Dwarves are a major setting element and would be virtually impossible to remove from the setting without leaving massive holes.

Sure. Because it humans couldn't be grumpy miners that like ale.

 

[Cadence]

Sure. Because it humans couldn't be grumpy miners that like ale.

But... but... darkvision.

:-/

 

[Hussar]

You know, it occurs to me that halflings may have the Champion Fighter "problem". There has been lots of discussion here about how the Champion Fighter is terrible design because it's so simple. People come up with all sorts of fixes to stop it from being terminally boring. When others point out that some players like the Champion Fighter because of (rather than despite) its simplicity, this does not convince the detractors.

An unrelated thought: if Dragonborn and Tieflings are so popular, that's actually a reason not to make either of them one of the "big four." The purpose of the free rules is to whet people's appetites and make them want to buy the full PHB, so holding back on some of the more popular options is a sound strategy.

Heh, I'd like to introduce you to the 4e PHB if you think that's a sound strategy.

 

[Hussar]

There isn't a world building issue. Or at least not any more than with any other fantasy species.

Yes, there really is, you just refuse to accept it.

None of the other main PHB races can be lifted out of the main settings - Forgotten Realms being the prime example, without massively rewriting the setting. Except, of course, for halflings. Yoinks halflings out of Dark Sun and what happens? Nothing. Why not? Because halflings in Dark Sun don't actually do anything. They don't matter. The only reason they are memorable is because they are cannibals, and that's obviously playing against type. Same with Eberron. Yoink out the dino riding halflings and replace them with anything, and it's the fact that they ride dinosaurs that makes them interesting. It has nothing to do with halflings at all. And, again, they have to basically 100% reject the core presentation - pastoral agrarian farmers who stay at home - in order to make them interesting.

If you have to completely rewrite the race every time you try to use it in a setting, to the point where, other than physical proportions, nothing remains of the core depiction of that race, then that race wasn't very interesting to begin with.