D&D General Dungeon Master or Referee?

[Marc_C]

I have never liked the term referee - it implies arbiter of two sides... and in my mind in RPGs there aren't two sides - there is one group with one goal (have a good time). The GM and players facilitate that goal for each other.

(sorry wrong poster) Referee means there is no dice fudging to help the players, for example. Also, not changing the dungeon 'on the fly' to force an encounter the players successfully by passed.

 

[Maxperson]

So simply out of curiosity can you PM me their contact information? Not that I would resort to player piracy of course!

I'm blessed that the guy whose house I run at just happens to both love to cook and be very, very good at it. Normally it's only about once a month, but since it has only been about two months since we all became vaccinated and started gaming in person again, I get the feeling he's trying to make up for the lost year. Not that I'm complaining or anything.

 

[Marc_C]

Definitely. I refuse to be adversarial and engage with arms races with the players. I want those who play in the game I run to have an enjoyable time.

Referee, to me, means there is no dice fudging to help the players, for example. Also, not changing the dungeon 'on the fly' to force an encounter the players successfully by passed. There is no arms race. On the contrary.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Nah. Nothing cringe worthy about it at all. It's just a term for someone who takes on the roles involved with that side of the game in DUNGEONS and Dragons. I mean, he could have gone with Dragon Master I suppose.

It literally referred to the person who created a megadungeon. They were the masters of their ongoing sprawling dungeons. (See the Hobby Shop Dungeon for a good example.)

This was not a name pulled out of a hat or for copyright purposes. It was referring to a specific function that I will bet money most DMs today don't do.

 

[Maxperson]

Referee means there is no dice fudging to help the players, for example. Also, not changing the dungeon 'on the fly' to force an encounter the players successfully by passed. There is no arms race. On the contrary.

Yes and no. I thin the DM is there to ensure the game is fair and enjoyable, even if that means bending the rules sometimes. I won't alter the dice to just help out the players if they are stuck in figuring out something or in a fair fight, but very rarely(0-2 times a campaign, and they average about a year) the dice on my side of the screen are critical hits and successful saves all over the place, while the players are all rolling under 10 for just about all that they are doing.

I'm not going to let extreme bad luck wipe the party and end the campaign. That's not fun for anyone. If they make a legitimate effort and fail or TPK, that's another story, but I'll fudge a few die rolls during those rare extreme bad luck instances just to even things out a little bit and give the PCs a fighting chance. I'm not going to fudge them into a win, and not in the vast majority of instances where things are fair. And never if they've done something foolish and gotten themselves into a bad situation.

 

[J.Quondam]

I am Ruler of the Rules and Rulings!
Interpreter of Dice, and Pundit of Probability!
Puppeteer of NPCs Powerful and Malign, and Maker of Maps and MacGuffins!
Granter of Gold, and Destroyer of Destinies!
Arbiter of the Gods and Overlord of the Hells!
I DM THAT I DM!

But "gamemaster" also works.

 

[Maxperson]

Ruler of the Rules and Rulings!
Interpreter of Dice, and Pundit of Probability!
Puppeteer of NPCs Powerful and Malign, and Maker of Maps and MacGuffins!
Granter of Gold, and Destroyer of Destinies!
Arbiter of the Gods and Overlord of the Hells!
I DM THAT I DM!

But "gamemaster" also works.

Three Books for the Referee under the roof to play,
Seven characters for the Players in their seats of wood,
Nine magic items for the PCs doomed to die,
One 20 sided for the Dungeon Master seated at the head,
In the House of Glory, where D&D lies,
One DM to rule them all, One DM to find them.
One DM to bring them all, and with the game bind them,
In the House of Glory, where the D&D lies.

 

[Charlaquin]

I’ve never thought referee was a very accurate description of the DM’s role. A referee’s role is to settle rules disputes between competing teams. The DM’s role is more comparable to the board in a cooperative euro-style board game than a referee. That said, it’s a purely semantic distinction and doesn’t really matter.

Though to be quite honest, when DMs insist on being called referees, it’s a bit of a red flag for me. It suggests a certain degree of attachment to an old-school play style that I find a bit concerning (the attachment to it, not the play style itself).

 

[Marc_C]

I’ve never thought referee was a very accurate description of the DM’s role. A referee’s role is to settle rules disputes between competing teams.The DM’s role is more comparable to the board in a cooperative euro-style board game than a referee. That said, it’s a purely semantic distinction and doesn’t really matter.

Though to be quite honest, when DMs insist on being called referees, it’s a bit of a red flag for me. It suggests a certain degree of attachment to an old-school play style that I find a bit concerning (the attachment to it, not the play style itself).

To be clear I don't insist on anything. Players call me the DM. I view myself as a referee during play and an adventure designer outside to play (based on PC actions). I don't like dungeons in general.

 

[Bedrockgames]

In older D&D books the person behind the screen is often called the Referee, which implies an impartial stance but also contains authority (final word). Dungeon Master doesn't have the neutral connotation and puts a higher emphasis on authority (master). Do you see yourself as a referee or a dungeon master? Or are they both just the same thing?

I see myself as a Referee.

I rend to prefer referee, but I use gamemaster simply because referee doesn't quite have the currency. In terms of role, I do view it more as being a ref.