Anyone Else Tired of The Tyranny of Novelty?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if big movie studios and such would great broken up, and most IP get punted into public domain, hopefully forcing them to hire people who want to tell stories that haven't been told much in movies or tv shows.

However, outside of that, it seems impossible to ever discuss any art/content without it turning into a discussion of how new/original/novel the work is or isn't.

Like...I am fairly well versed in how we came to this. A lot of it is IP law, and another big chunk is simply the ever-growing ability for a story to survive in a specific form by a specific person for vastly longer than has ever been the case before, and be vastly more broadly distributed in that specific form than ever before, in an ever increasing buildup of stuff we can just rewatch, reread, listen to again, etc.

And so, because we are used to all art reaching toward the greatest possible state of novelty while still saying something familiar enough to resonate, it is nearly impossible to make something that is a straightforward retelling of a classic tale without receiving pretty harsh criticism, often of a type that seems to imply that the artist is a bad person for making "derivative" art. As if the works we are comparing a work to weren't literally just as derivative, just of stuff we have less direct knowledge of as the audience.

I'm not sure if there is any real purpose here, I just get frustrated by the attitude that greater novelty is inherently better and retelling classic stories is some sort of moral failure.
 

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Yeah, novelty is overrated. Execution is king: a well told story is good, whether it is original or derivative.
Agreed, and IMHO when it comes to RPGs, hitting everything with a clue by four is all for the best, too!

I'm just working out the details of how my next game will be about retelling the classic myths. Like I think the concept will be that you can gain power by taking on the characteristics of a mythic archetype and becoming that story. Maybe it will work for folktale kind of stuff too. That would make a really interesting spin on monsters... Hey I'm the Big Bad Wolf, guess what?!
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Yeah, novelty is overrated. Execution is king: a well told story is good, whether it is original or derivative.
Yep. Absolutely.
Novelty itself is fine, what I dislike is people declaring something a clone or ripoff of another work just because it shares some surface elements.
This. I delight just as much as most folks in a novel song or story or whatever. I love seeing a new artistic movement emerge. But I also enjoy it when someone does really good acoustic folk ballads, or a really kickass rock song, or makes new music that resembles and speaks to the soul of old jazz classics. Neither is better than the other.
Agreed, and IMHO when it comes to RPGs, hitting everything with a clue by four is all for the best, too!

I'm just working out the details of how my next game will be about retelling the classic myths. Like I think the concept will be that you can gain power by taking on the characteristics of a mythic archetype and becoming that story. Maybe it will work for folktale kind of stuff too. That would make a really interesting spin on monsters... Hey I'm the Big Bad Wolf, guess what?!
That is kindof how the gods work in my Islands World setting. Like, the gods are real, and have both material and immaterial existence, can be in many places at once without any loss of focus or presence in a given place, and they're part of the things they represent at a fundemental level*, but they are also the stories told about them, and they manifest in those who emulate those tales or who write new tales with their deeds that speak to the nature of the gods. When you move truly soundlessly through the forest at night to get the perfect moonlit shot at your prey, and execute the shot perfectly, Artemis is literally with you and also...sortof is you.

*Sehanine is the Lover's Moon, but also the moons are all literal physical objects in the space outside the atmosphere of the planet, and she is also the moonlight, and also she is the moment when moonlight illuminates a hidden danger or allows a lover to see their beloved's face in the darkness during a hidden tryst, while Artemis is the Hunter's Moon, and the moment when prey appears poised in the soft blue light of her moon, and also the thumping hearts-joy of chasing prey and of competing in a footrace and of lunging for the throat of an abuser or oppressor
 

Agreed, and IMHO when it comes to RPGs, hitting everything with a clue by four is all for the best, too!

I'm just working out the details of how my next game will be about retelling the classic myths. Like I think the concept will be that you can gain power by taking on the characteristics of a mythic archetype and becoming that story. Maybe it will work for folktale kind of stuff too. That would make a really interesting spin on monsters... Hey I'm the Big Bad Wolf, guess what?!
I think this would be pretty awesome. To me, it makes me think in some ways of the Werewolf the Apocalypse, with binding your pack to a totem, and how the cities had City Fathers that embodied what that city 'was' - for instance, Chicago's, if I remember right, was a large, broad shouldered muscular man with a large hammer... both kind of the body of the man in the slaughterhouse as well as the man building the rails.

I do think it would also be cool, following in someone's footsteps giving you their power. We all know about the Hero's Journey, what if each step you conquer DOES give you power. What if someone is your rival, so its not enough to just follow your path, but to thwart their path?? YMMV
 

CleverNickName

Limit Break Dancing
I think people put too much focus on "trying to be different" and not nearly enough on "trying to be fun."


Yeah, novelty is overrated. Execution is king: a well told story is good, whether it is original or derivative.
This is true in the kitchen, too. It doesn't matter if you're cooking the latest trendy dish out of New York's finest restaurant or your own grandma's classic meatloaf for the hundredth time. If the execution is bad, the food will be bad. Every time.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
I'm not sure if there is any real purpose here, I just get frustrated by the attitude that greater novelty is inherently better and retelling classic stories is some sort of moral failure.

It isn't a moral failure, but there is a real question - if one is retelling a classic, and there's little novel in the retelling, why is the audience expected to take in yours, rather than one of the previous versions that made the thing a classic?

There are a few places where this question works out - live theater, for example, in part because the live experience is ephemeral.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Running with that…

There’s been countless renditions of Shakespeare’s works for stage, TV, and film. Not all of them are good. Some are quite bad. Some are excellent.

And my 2 favorite versions of Melville’s Moby Dick are Of Unknown Origin and Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan. Most of the rest are...meh.

One of the dynamics is something Umbran was saying- basically, if you’ve seen it before, why see it again? That’s where novelty comes in.

And one of the reasons why novelty is in such demand right now is that, in a lot of pop culture right now, there’s all kinds of concept recycling without a lot of innovation. Which means that any new ideas seem better in contrast, even if they aren’t really good at all.

I mean,look at the past decade of TV shows and films: how many movie reboots? How many game shows have returned to the air after 30 years of slumber?
 

I think this would be pretty awesome. To me, it makes me think in some ways of the Werewolf the Apocalypse, with binding your pack to a totem, and how the cities had City Fathers that embodied what that city 'was' - for instance, Chicago's, if I remember right, was a large, broad shouldered muscular man with a large hammer... both kind of the body of the man in the slaughterhouse as well as the man building the rails.

I do think it would also be cool, following in someone's footsteps giving you their power. We all know about the Hero's Journey, what if each step you conquer DOES give you power. What if someone is your rival, so its not enough to just follow your path, but to thwart their path?? YMMV
Cool, yeah, so you can not so much create a completely original story, but retell a kind of an archetypal one, recapitulate a myth or tale. There can be new elements to it, etc. and maybe the outcome is in doubt, but there's a real reason for going with the myth, enacting it has great significance, probably ties closely to some mechanics too. We can go right back to Graves and Hammilton and the whole Hero's Journey, etc. as you say.

Nothing is ever really new under the Sun, but it can be fresh again!

Then the question is more about how to organize the thing in terms of a group of players participating and whatnot. Gotta think on that one more.
 

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