Revolutions are Always Verbose: Effecting Change in the TTRPG Industry

[dragoner]

Given the way unions in the US work, and the organization of HasBro, an attempt to unionize WotC would likely see WotC simply disbanded before final vote. D&D would probably wind up at one of the other games companies that HasBro owns, in a whole different staff, and with a new, more politically correct, edition...
A thin but legal justification of consolidating creatives to a single workplace could be used to evade the federal anti-retaliation laws, provided the pink slips hit before the vote. (My cousin, a retired DoL attorney, has complained about how that's been done too often...)

Yes, I have seen that happen before as well. I think that a creatives guild such as for writers in Hollywood, is a better example than a top down union. Writers Guild of America West - Wikipedia

 

[MGibster]

How much would someone, as a purchaser of RPGs, think a writer or artist who works on those same RPGs should earn?

When I make a decision to purchase an RPG how much artists are making really isn't a determining factor behind whether or not I'll take the plunge. In August 2020, I purchased the Traveller RPG Starter Box because it looked interesting, reviews were good, and it appeared to be a solid value and although I haven't had an opportunity to run a campaign yet I am happy with my purchase. But I didn't give any consideration to the economic needs of any of the artists who worked on it. I am not in any position to judge how much they should earn.

But are there limits? If you were to discover that the person who, say, laid out your latest RPG book earned more than you, would you be okay with that? Suppose you discover they drive an Aston Martin?

My limits are what I'm willing to spend not what any particular artists makes. I decided not to see The Cable Guy when it was released in theaters back in 1996 because it didn't look like a movie that would interest me. I didn't care one bit that Jim Carey was paid a reported $20,000,000 to appear in it. I'll happily purchased a Stephen King book even knowing he's making money hand over fist. Again, it's just not a factor.

The flipside is that if I go into specifics, there may be some thought in the back of some minds that says maybe the latest Traveller book could do with being $10 cheaper...

All things considered, I believe I get a good value for the amount of money I spend on role playing games. Almost every aspect of games has improved quite a bit since the 1970s and the games remain reasonably priced. I don't have any complaints.

So, I would very much like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. In the great social strata, where should/could RPG creators sit?

Ideally, it'd be nice if people were able to make a decent living doing what they love. Maybe not Astin Martin rich, but I'd be fine with that, but have enough to live a decent lifestyle without having to worry about where the rent money is coming from next month. But even outside of gaming, it seems to me like a lot of artists really have to struggle/hustle to even make ends meet. I don't know how to fix that.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Game design, acting, arts, and the entertainment industry in general are examples here there are usually more people want in than the industry can support. I do not think that unionisation can make much of an impact. Trade unions work best in industries that employ a lot of people in large units. Similar to manufacturing in the early to mid twentieth century.
Changing social attitude can make some impact on peoples wages and of course government regulation such as minimum wages and minimus employment conditions can have a huge impact.
I think that one possible policy that would have a huge impact here would be something like a Universal Basic Income.

That said, my own major consideration when I buy a game or game material is "Will I get use out of this" I am somewhat past buying stuff that sits on a shelf and never gets played.

 

[Blue Orange]

This dovetails into something I have been considering.

How much would someone, as a purchaser of RPGs, think a writer or artist who works on those same RPGs should earn?

The simple answer is 'I want to support the people who help create my hobby and if they do well, good for them.'

But are there limits? If you were to discover that the person who, say, laid out your latest RPG book earned more than you, would you be okay with that? Suppose you discover they drive an Aston Martin? That they outright own a 5 bedroom house out in the sticks with a swimming pool? That their other hobby is flying helicopters and that they are seriously thinking about their first purchase in that field?

More to the point, at what level would you, the purchaser of RPGs, start thinking... 'If the producers of this book were not being paid so much, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper'?

Again, the simple answer is 'if the book is worth that much to me, I will happily pay it.' But are there limits here?

The reason I ask is that the majority costs for Mongoose are rooted firmly in content - writers, artists, and those who support them - with other costs (such as printing) way, way behind. This is a position I very much support (indeed, engineered), and I like the idea of being able to tell customers that the majority of their purchases go directly to the creators. The flipside is that if I go into specifics, there may be some thought in the back of some minds that says maybe the latest Traveller book could do with being $10 cheaper...

So, I would very much like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. In the great social strata, where should/could RPG creators sit?

Higher than they do now. I doubt there's anyone driving an Aston Martin except maybe Peter Adkison or Chris Cocks? Even Gary Gygax didn't do all that well, as I recall.

 

[Jd Smith1]

A good restaurant meal, for three, is usually $100 + tip (20-30%). A truly great restaurant meal can cost between $200 - $500 (plus, you know, tip). Number can, and will, vary, depending on amount you drink (if you drink), and factors such as the type of restaurants. But still ...

Your assumptions are flawed.

Firstly, I don't dine out in odd numbers.

Second, I tip 10%.

$33 a plate is a bit high where I am. $25 will get me a lovely 16oz porterhouse with all the sides, salad, rolls, etc.

$15-20 will provide a very nice evening meal.

If you're going to use food as a comparison, pull from a chain where individual experiences are more likely to be similar.

 

[Jd Smith1]

This dovetails into something I have been considering.

How much would someone, as a purchaser of RPGs, think a writer or artist who works on those same RPGs should earn?

Not a consideration in any way means, or manner. For example, I just bought my wife a new truck earlier this month, and I didn't give a single thought to what anyone in the process of designing, building, moving, or selling said vehicle earned. I hammered the price down as far as I could, and went on.

The simple answer is 'I want to support the people who help create my hobby and if they do well, good for them.'

Not the simple answer. The simple answer is: if the price isn't what I like, I'll choose a different product (there's staggering numbers to choose from), or just write the blasted thing myself.

But are there limits? If you were to discover that the person who, say, laid out your latest RPG book earned more than you, would you be okay with that? Suppose you discover they drive an Aston Martin? That they outright own a 5 bedroom house out in the sticks with a swimming pool? That their other hobby is flying helicopters and that they are seriously thinking about their first purchase in that field?

Who cares? I live on lakeside acreage, in a large home, and drive a luxury vehicle. I know the CEO of Ford earns more in a month than I will in my entire life.

More to the point, at what level would you, the purchaser of RPGs, start thinking... 'If the producers of this book were not being paid so much, it would be a hell of a lot cheaper'?

Again, the simple answer is 'if the book is worth that much to me, I will happily pay it.' But are there limits here?

I very rarely 'happily pay'. The simple answer is in fact 'is this worth the price to me?'

The reason I ask is that the majority costs for Mongoose are rooted firmly in content - writers, artists, and those who support them - with other costs (such as printing) way, way behind. This is a position I very much support (indeed, engineered), and I like the idea of being able to tell customers that the majority of their purchases go directly to the creators. The flipside is that if I go into specifics, there may be some thought in the back of some minds that says maybe the latest Traveller book could do with being $10 cheaper...

So, I would very much like to hear peoples' thoughts on this. In the great social strata, where should/could RPG creators sit?

They should sit wherever they can afford the rent.

I recently hired a guy to cut down six trees on my property and haul off the remains. He quoted a price, I agreed to it, he did the job, I paid him. I didn't inquire if he was struggling to make ends meet. I did not offer to buy a replacement for the tie-down strap he broke. We had a transaction that was completed according to the agreement. I could have bough a chainsaw, rented a trailer, and done it myself, but it is hot, the work is hard, and the price he offered didn't upset me.

If Mongoose puts out a product, and I think the price is too high, I'll look at all the other products, commercial and free, for a better alternative. Or I'll read the reviews and write my own version, because Mongoose has no lock on my gaming options.

And I know for a certainty that Traveller material will continue to be produced even if Mongoose folds.

The simple fact is there is a glut of RPG writers, to include those posting materials for free, and a decades-old backlog of material in the older systems. Plus the fact that a GM can write their own.

So the laws of economics suggests that RPG writers will need a day job.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Your assumptions are flawed.

Second, I tip 10%.

If you're going to use food as a comparison, pull from a chain where individual experiences are more likely to be similar.

Two things-

First, if you tip 10%, then you are, fundamentally, the type of person who simply shouldn't be eating out in America. Either price the cost of the meal appropriately (15% is too low today) or eat at a place where service is included- like McDonalds or a self-service buffet.

Second, if you are thinking about chain restaurants when someone is discussing truly great meals (when the point of comparison should be a meal at a name-chef's restaurant) then you probably missing the comparator. A truly great restaurant meal tends to be at the type of place where you can name the chef, not Applebees.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Two things-

First, if you tip 10%, then you are, fundamentally, the type of person who simply shouldn't be eating out in America. Either price the cost of the meal appropriately (15% is too low today) or eat at a place where service is included- like McDonalds or a self-service buffet.

Lucky for me, you're not in charge.

Second, if you are thinking about chain restaurants when someone is discussing truly great meals (when the point of comparison should be a meal at a name-chef's restaurant) then you probably missing the comparator. A truly great restaurant meal tends to be at the type of place where you can name the chef, not Applebees.

If you're talking about a restaurant with a named chef, then $33 a plate is very low.

As to a truly great meal, cost does not equal quality. I've eaten in top-scale places in Rome, Paris, London, and major US cities (mainly in the South), and mostly what you're paying for is ambiance, status, and a great wine cellar. On the other hand, there's a place a little better than an hours drive from where I live where your meal is served on butcher paper, and the seafood and ribs are the best I've had on three continents. The gumbo rivals that in Louisiana. And it's not expensive at all.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Lucky for me, you're not in charge.

You’re right. I’m not. People like you, that #humblebrag about your houses and new cars and dining overseas while you can’t be bothered to tip people the proper amount (given that in the US they are paid below minimum wage in tipped positions) and think you are clever when you are just free riders are the problem. I'm sure you hurt your arm patting yourself on the back when you managed to not pay any tithes in church because, hey, it's not like someone can make you, right?

Doing the right thing is for suckers, not for a self-made man!

If you're talking about a restaurant with a named chef, then $33 a plate is very low.

Your reading comprehension is on-par with your tipping ability. Not sure how you went from complaining that $200-$500 a meal for three people was too much to saying, "Oh noes, that's $33 a person."

Maybe that's why you tip 10%. Math, it's hard.

As to a truly great meal, cost does not equal quality. I've eaten in top-scale places in Rome, Paris, London, and major US cities (mainly in the South), and mostly what you're paying for is ambiance, status, and a great wine cellar. On the other hand, there's a place a little better than an hours drive from where I live where your meal is served on butcher paper, and the seafood and ribs are the best I've had on three continents. The gumbo rivals that in Louisiana. And it's not expensive at all.

What? Are you trying to say that there are good places to eat that are, like, hole-in-the-walls? Maybe a off-the-beaten-track pho restaurant? Perhaps an amazing taco place?

You should definitely alert Yelp- in 2009.

 

[Mallus]

I've eaten in top-scale places in Rome, Paris, London, and major US cities (mainly in the South)...

So you know better than to tip 10% (in the US), but you do it anyway?